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Ogre

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I think Elon wants to stick it to California. If the union stuff or the political stuff gets to ugly I could see him giving California the finger. And I live in CA so I like to see them stay but I wouldn’t blame him.
Totally agree. But he's not a poke out the eye to spite the face kind of guy.

He certainly isn't building new facilities in California and I wouldn't be surprised if he were to shutter this one... but only once it's no longer profitable to produce cars there.
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uff_da

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Tried getting a test drive after seeing your message but I guess they do not have an appointment available (Too much demand they say) and I live like nowhere (Great state of Ohio). Will definitely try test driving one for sure. Thanks.
I live 500 miles from the nearest Tesla showroom so getting a ride in one was a challenge. I finally rented one (in Denver) on a family trip just to try one out. It was like so many people describe, you get in an drive and you its such a fun and compelling experience. I was expecting to like it and I did so I was biased. What surprised me was my wife (who could care less about vehicles and is a conservative spender) saying "I feel like when we buy our next car, it would be dumb not to get one of these". That really surprised me!

Now I have a MY on order because we need a new vehicle and can't wait for CT. My hope is to sell the Y when my CT is ready. I have rented a Y twice and both times its been a great experience. Obviously there have been many cases of people with issues but its difficult to quantify without real data. I am crossing my fingers I have a good experience since I am so far from a service center (but can get remote service).

Just sharing my experience so far and would suggest renting one to anyone looking to try it out. It lets get the charging experience, have a little range anxiety first hand, and get more time with it put it through its paces.
 

rr6013

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No issues with our 2018 or 2019 model 3's. Although they DO drive different, it's hard to quantify.

I think my 2019 feels better than the wife's, and she thinks the opposite. :sneaky:

But hey, I hear Ford once made a car that burst into flames when rear ended. People didn't stop buying Fords.
1970 Pinto was my college PITA daily driver. Truck totaled it hitting the rear bumper which flipped it upside down. Lucky I am alive. Gas tanks exploded in the news right after the Pinto was gone. Twice lucky.
 

rr6013

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I think Elon wants to stick it to California. If the union stuff or the political stuff gets to ugly I could see him giving California the finger. And I live in CA so I like to see them stay but I wouldn’t blame him.
Elon has twice stuck it to California.
  1. Defying State of California COVID mandated plant closing
  2. Relocating Tesla HQ
Senator Lorena Gonzalez (D) tweeted “F*ck Elon Musk” after which Elon acknowledged “message received”. Elon loves the state, California citizenry and the California environment that fostered birth of Tesla EV car culture. That love affair all started in California. California owns the most Teslas. California uses the most solar.

Tesla simply ran out of money to afford California. It couldn’t afford the ground costs to float a GigaFactory. It couldn’t afford the cost of living wage necessary to operate a GigaFactory in California. And Tesla ran out of ways to afford the overhead burden California imposes on all business, environmental and operational impacts that growth impacts inflict in the state.

For Elon it was more the case that Tesla simply ran out of runway in California. There’s plenty of opportunity to label revenge-seeking in Elon’s actions. There is truth in that… but only a grain, if it was. It was truly the grain that broke Tesla’s back.
 


Throwcomputer

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Elon has twice stuck it to California.
  1. Defying State of California COVID mandated plant closing
  2. Relocating Tesla HQ
Senator Lorena Gonzalez (D) tweeted “F*ck Elon Musk” after which Elon acknowledged “message received”. Elon loves the state, California citizenry and the California environment that fostered birth of Tesla EV car culture. That love affair all started in California. California owns the most Teslas. California uses the most solar.

Tesla simply ran out of money to afford California. It couldn’t afford the ground costs to float a GigaFactory. It couldn’t afford the cost of living wage necessary to operate a GigaFactory in California. And Tesla ran out of ways to afford the overhead burden California imposes on all business, environmental and operational impacts that growth impacts inflict in the state.

For Elon it was more the case that Tesla simply ran out of runway in California. There’s plenty of opportunity to label revenge-seeking in Elon’s actions. There is truth in that… but only a grain, if it was. It was truly the grain that broke Tesla’s back.
Tesla can afford it. Tesla wanted to get tax incentives for their new plant which California wasn't providing. Tesla doesn't need incentives as musk says, but they still choose to benefit from them. Musk just wanted to give Cali the middle finger in the 1% version of people using the term let's go Brandon. Don't get your way, take your toys and go play elsewhere while trying to stick it to others on your way out. Same crap, different maturity level supposedly.

Tesla moving out of Cali to Texas was a personal decision, not a business decision. Simply put.
 

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The Model 3 was Tesla's first big push into large-scale manufacturing, which Elon called "production hell" when ironing out the details. They are far more experienced now, but the early fitment problems pointed a red-hot spotlight on otherwise minor issues, like panel gaps.

I think this is one area where Tesla is being hurt by the direct-sales model. Dealerships are expert detailers, and will repair/clean any minor defects from manufacturing or transport and thus have a higher perceived initial quality.
Really? I mean, I see what you're saying but when I took delivery of my Golf R the usual recommendation around the interwebs was to tell the dealer not to detail it as they'll fuck it up. Actually, I had to explain some things to my dealer like how to install the metallic attachments on the keyfob that were unique to the R model. I'm sure some dealers are better than others, but "expert detailers" doesn't ring true for me.
 

tidmutt

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I couldn’t agree more (except I am not that into hunting). I am a builder at heart so I need a truck to help me get materials where I need them efficiently. I am a little concerned the CT is being designed as a luxury vehicle that happens to have a bed. It’s so funny to me that people focus so much on body panels gaps when that has very little to do with quality. I have pulled more parts out of ICE cars than I can count and body panel gaps have nothing to do with quality. That’s aesthetics. It’s like looking at the finish on a concrete nuclear reactor shell and judging the quality of the reactor on the concrete finish. I want a work horse. Not a show pony with saddle bags. I get there are a lot of gentlemen out there wanting a fancy truck that they can put their golf clubs in but I hope the CT is geared more toward what a truck is for.
Someone needs to tell Consumer Reports this little nugget about "quality" and "reliability". People expect reliability to be related to does it get me from point a to point b on a regular basis without issue. Not, is the trunk lid slightly misaligned. So people think Teslas are unreliable and filled with issues.

We have a Golf R and a Model 3 in our garage. The Golf R has been at the dealer 7 or 8 times in 50K miles. Mostly scheduled maintenance, occasional warranty work. It's never broken down and stranded us. The Model 3 has also never broken down and stranded us in 50K miles, it's also never been "at the dealer". It's had two mobile services. One was for a tire rotation and was done in our garage. It didn't even really need it. The second was the 12V battery replacement which was done in front of a client's house out of town. Which one of those represents a better quality and reliability related experience? You can find the panel gap inconsistencies if you look, but the interior has few rattles. The Golf R has some annoying rattles that I could never be bothered getting fixed. The dealer would often say I need to book it in for a longer appointment and get a loner to fix things like rattles. I just put up with them.

Don't get me wrong, the Golf R is an excellent vehicle, one of the best daily driver hot hatches available and a constant joy to drive. The Model 3 is just on a different level as an all round ownership experience. Fast, fun, practical, essentially zero maintenance, cheap to run, improved over time with OTA software updates, easy to drive long distances. It's not quite as fun in the twisties but that may be in part due to its less aggressive rubber. They cost about the same to buy, but if I switched my car for a Model 3 LR I would spend less per month overall. Quite a fair bit less actually. I calculated I could buy a Model Y Performance and the monthly cost would be only slightly more than what I'm paying now.

I ignore virtually all the mainstream automotive media now, it's too likely they are biased.
 

rr6013

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<Snip>
Don't get your way, take your toys and go play elsewhere while trying to stick it to others on your way out. Same crap, different maturity level supposedly.
Located in Panama, the pulse and nuance that’s circulating behind “Let’s go Brandon” in the U.S. is lacking for me. Surely agree with all but the “others”…

Maybe its a misread on Elon acting human and in a fiduciary capacity building Tesla GigaFactory in TX. Tesla HQ move to TX was a personal CEO accommodation but only read that as matter-of-fact as Elon’s SpaceX located across the freeway too.

This suggests instead of “Tesla Road” it’s really Elon’s Way?
 

rr6013

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but if I switched my car for a Model 3 LR I would spend less per month overall. Quite a fair bit less actually
Interesting calculated statement! So Range pencils.
 


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This suggests instead of “Tesla Road” it’s really Elon’s Way?
Until Musk steps down as CEO of Tesla.. Tesla's way == Elon's way.

BTW, Im not hating on Tesla or Musk. I just see his actions as self serving narcissism in this anti california publicity and the business actions are purely who threw more money at them.

I pay attention to him only as much as I learn info about my CT and when it will be ready!
 
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HaulingAss

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Tesla just built a new Gigapack factory in California, expanded their offices in Palo Alto, and added capacity at both their Fremont and Hawthorne facilities.

They're not pulling out of California. Elon said so.

-Crissa
That is so true!

Tesla's most scarce and most valuable resource is smart, capable people and there is a huge pool of exceptional talent that would not be willing to move to Texas (not even if large raises were offered).
 

HaulingAss

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Until Musk steps down as CEO of Tesla.. Tesla's way == Elon's way.

BTW, Im not hating on Tesla or Musk. I just see his actions as self serving narcissism in this anti california publicity and the business actions are purely who threw more money at them.

I pay attention to him only as much as I learn info about my CT and when it will be ready!
You have some serious misconceptions about who Elon is and what he stands for.

Elon is truly concerned about growing red tape that reduces productivity in any geo-political area Tesla operates, and Germany is probably one of the worst, but California takes the cake in the lower 48 US states. This is not a game or political stunt with Elon, he actually cares deeply about moving humanity forward, making people's lives better and increasing standards of living through innovation and hard work. These are things he believes in and unnecessary rules and regulations that may have had a good reason for existing at one time but now are just ridiculous and stand in the way of progress are one of the evils that must be cut down to move forward. They often serve no one but bureaucracy while harming everyone in the aggregate.

Elon is not narcissistic, he's actually a very sensitive and caring person. He could have retired with hundreds of millions decades ago, bought some yachts and islands and been sipping drinks on the beach and swimming naked with models. But he chose to continue to work tirelessly to innovate and move humanity forward. He wants to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy and push the boundaries of human exploration and knowledge of the world we live in. He has donated millions towards important causes that help push humanity forward and raises the human condition. He does this quietly and rarely brings it up again.

The media does not give him a fair shake, primarily because mainstream media is largely funded by big auto and big oil interests. Elon, Tesla and SpaceX do not pay a penny to MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NBC, The Washington Post, etc. These are media empires of which a major portion of their revenues is paid through the auto industry. Just look at who buys advertising space/time from these media companies and what kind of stocks their billionaire owners have inherited. They feel like they must protect their old-world legacy.

So, if you have a negative view of Elon Musk, I'll chalk it up to all the people who want him to fail and how this yellow journalism has an undue influence on your impressions of the man. Pretty much every negative story about him takes things out of context, doesn't tell the whole story, or misrepresents what actually happened in some fundamental way. Every human has flaws, but Elon is not selfish or narcissistic compared to the average human, that just shows you don't understand him very well and that your image of him was influenced by MSM and Internet hate.

The world would be a much better place if more people were more like Elon. A fair, honest, hard-working fact-based innovator working tirelessly to bring us better, cleaner, healthier more efficient products at affordable prices and recycling the profits to grow the company to serve more and more people every year and branch into new markets that require innovation to serve humanity better by helping to make civilization sustainable through the ages.

When you look at Elon Musk through just about any objective lens, he puts most humans to shame!
 

Throwcomputer

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You have some serious misconceptions about who Elon is and what he stands for.

Elon is truly concerned about growing red tape that reduces productivity in any geo-political area Tesla operates, and Germany is probably one of the worst, but California takes the cake in the lower 48 US states. This is not a game or political stunt with Elon, he actually cares deeply about moving humanity forward, making people's lives better and increasing standards of living through innovation and hard work. These are things he believes in and unnecessary rules and regulations that may have had a good reason for existing at one time but now are just ridiculous and stand in the way of progress are one of the evils that must be cut down to move forward. They often serve no one but bureaucracy while harming everyone in the aggregate.

Elon is not narcissistic, he's actually a very sensitive and caring person. He could have retired with hundreds of millions decades ago, bought some yachts and islands and been sipping drinks on the beach and swimming naked with models. But he chose to continue to work tirelessly to innovate and move humanity forward. He wants to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy and push the boundaries of human exploration and knowledge of the world we live in. He has donated millions towards important causes that help push humanity forward and raises the human condition. He does this quietly and rarely brings it up again.

The media does not give him a fair shake, primarily because mainstream media is largely funded by big auto and big oil interests. Elon, Tesla and SpaceX do not pay a penny to MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NBC, The Washington Post, etc. These are media empires of which a major portion of their revenues is paid through the auto industry. Just look at who buys advertising space/time from these media companies and what kind of stocks their billionaire owners have inherited. They feel like they must protect their old-world legacy.

So, if you have a negative view of Elon Musk, I'll chalk it up to all the people who want him to fail and how this yellow journalism has an undue influence on your impressions of the man. Pretty much every negative story about him takes things out of context, doesn't tell the whole story, or misrepresents what actually happened in some fundamental way. Every human has flaws, but Elon is not selfish or narcissistic compared to the average human, that just shows you don't understand him very well and that your image of him was influenced by MSM and Internet hate.

The world would be a much better place if more people were more like Elon. A fair, honest, hard-working fact-based innovator working tirelessly to bring us better, cleaner, healthier more efficient products at affordable prices and recycling the profits to grow the company to serve more and more people every year and branch into new markets that require innovation to serve humanity better by helping to make civilization sustainable through the ages.

When you look at Elon Musk through just about any objective lens, he puts most humans to shame!
I have read enough rash musk tweets to know that he is narcissitic. I form my opinions not on articles but on peoples actual actions and words. Like I said, I have nothing against musk and think he is doing gods work and like most humans can also be sensitive, caring and thoughtful.. but all those and being a narcissist are not mutually exclusive. He needs a personal filter/restraint many times. Like I do, except im not out there leading one of the biggest companies with a megaphone to the whole world. I am an intelligent/caring person.. but I am also a brash ahole who has a tin can and string communication line to you!
 

HaulingAss

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Tesla can afford it. Tesla wanted to get tax incentives for their new plant which California wasn't providing. Tesla doesn't need incentives as musk says, but they still choose to benefit from them. Musk just wanted to give Cali the middle finger in the 1% version of people using the term let's go Brandon. Don't get your way, take your toys and go play elsewhere while trying to stick it to others on your way out. Same crap, different maturity level supposedly.

Tesla moving out of Cali to Texas was a personal decision, not a business decision. Simply put.
You are ill-informed about this and wrong. Years before Elon had a spat with California, he projected the next factory for the US would be somewhere in the mid-west. I know Texans don't like to be associated with the Mid-West but, from the perspective of shipping millions of cars to their American buyers, Texas has a pretty favorable location.

Elon Musk is an engineer, first and foremost. But he is also a smart businessman who has built a very popular trillion-dollar company without spending millions on advertising. He understands that car manufacturing requires large pools of blue-collar workers that know how to put in an honest day's work. Elon is smart, he put the brains of the company in Silicon Valley, where the largest pool of smart, educated people lived, and the largest manufacturing plant in the heart of Texas, where things cost a lot less and there are thousands of energetic people who would like good paying jobs. And, as the world transitions off oil, there will be an increasing number of people who need jobs in- the new energy economy.

This was not a personal decision at all, it was a smart business move. Those who try to present it as childish are either ill-informed or purposefully trying to throw shade on someone they view as a threat to the source of their income and power.
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