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hobbit11

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Once ICE car numbers decline and gas sales decline, where are the states/feds going to get that tax revenue? The cost of each gallon of gas includes a considerable percent of tax revenue. For example, in MO, each gallon of gas includes 17.42 cents of state tax and 18.40 cents of federal tax. Standard Unleaded is $1.96 today resulting in 18%+ of the price going to the government in taxes. California state tax is much more at 62.47 cents per gallon.

This will have to be replaced somewhere. Maybe they start taxing (or increase taxes) on electricity?

Not saying we shouldn't be transitioning away from oil, but I wonder what the 'unintended consequences' are going to be of some of this new legislation.
YUP!!! Never fear. The money grab will come!!!
 

Crissa

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what's generating the particulates?
A firestorm precipitated by higher than normal temperatures and stronger than normal winds.

Climate change. Things are burning that usually don't, in a way they haven't before.
YUP!!! Never fear. The money grab will come!!!
Do you not want to pay for roads?

-Crissa
 

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Most of us in California are going Solar! That's why at least having V2H or V2V is important. Elon totally sidestepped that question and clearly wants to sell Powerwalls. I hate to say it, but his answer on battery day was full of crap. A powerwall is expensive and doesn't come close to storing the energy a CT can. And I'll already have the damn CT. He talks like you could wake up and your battery would be empty. How much power does your house use at night while your sleeping, plus a CT has enough storage capacity for the average household use for 3-4 days! Oh and what about the fact that most of us will have at least 2 cars. Currently in my household we have 4 vehicles parked most of the time. It's super rare to not have at least 2 of them parked at my house. Why the heck not store extra energy from the solar in the batteries of the vehicles?
Most ? Really? I am sure a lot of folks did not get that memo and are still on grid power.
 

hobbit11

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A firestorm precipitated by higher than normal temperatures and stronger than normal winds.

Climate change. Things are burning that usually don't, in a way they haven't before.

Do you not want to pay for roads?

-Crissa
of course I am in favor of building infrastructure. Just noting that the tax man is gonna get his due one way or the other. It is essential to our way of life and the economy. I am sorry that the air quality where you live is so bad and is causing you issues. Take good care of yourself.
 

hobbit11

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Most of us in California are going Solar! That's why at least having V2H or V2V is important. Elon totally sidestepped that question and clearly wants to sell Powerwalls. I hate to say it, but his answer on battery day was full of crap. A powerwall is expensive and doesn't come close to storing the energy a CT can. And I'll already have the damn CT. He talks like you could wake up and your battery would be empty. How much power does your house use at night while your sleeping, plus a CT has enough storage capacity for the average household use for 3-4 days! Oh and what about the fact that most of us will have at least 2 cars. Currently in my household we have 4 vehicles parked most of the time. It's super rare to not have at least 2 of them parked at my house. Why the heck not store extra energy from the solar in the batteries of the vehicles?
great response. And the CT will have the software to set how much you want the CT to discharge before you don't have the energy you need to drive the CT. A smart inverter and a connection to the CT would power my entire house and my solar panel system will recharge my CT when not in use. If Elon is worried about a battery shortage, bi-directional charging for the CT helps us get over that hump. He was double speaking on the CT option of bi-directional charging. Give us the choice to decide and he can increase the use of the existing battery inventory. C,mon, Elon.
 

Dids

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great response. And the CT will have the software to set how much you want the CT to discharge before you don't have the energy you need to drive the CT. A smart inverter and a connection to the CT would power my entire house and my solar panel system will recharge my CT when not in use. If Elon is worried about a battery shortage, bi-directional charging for the CT helps us get over that hump. He was double speaking on the CT option of bi-directional charging. Give us the choice to decide and he can increase the use of the existing battery inventory. C,mon, Elon.
For most people solar panels provide power in the day time. Many people use their vehicles to drive somewhere in the day time. Now they aren't using energy in their house or charging their vehicle. Some people could sell the excess energy back to the grid and the utilities could build battery storage to store the excess but that approach means if utilities have problems no one has power. Better approach have smaller battery local.
The new batteries have a ~56% cost reduction so powerwall will get more affordable.
Adding V2G to cybertruck will cost something... Raising the price of the vehicle to provide a solution that isn't a good solution instead of engineering a good solution (powerwall) and engineering a lower cost for that perfect solution would be a terrible idea. C'mon Elon lower the price of powerwall.
 

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Maybe the best solution for V2H with the CT is an 'aftermarket' add-on using the power outlets provided in the bed. As far as I know, California is the only state that has this emergency need for power created by the rolling blackouts ( I know there are other emergency scenarios like storms, etc). Other V2H or V2G is very premature at this point. Where I am, I can't even sell back to the grid right now. So, I think it would be foolish for a car maker to spend time developing a technology/system to serve 1 states needs out of 50. I think lower cost power walls makes more sense now. V2H or V2G might make more sense as battery technology progresses.
 

hobbit11

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Maybe the best solution for V2H with the CT is an 'aftermarket' add-on using the power outlets provided in the bed. As far as I know, California is the only state that has this emergency need for power created by the rolling blackouts ( I know there are other emergency scenarios like storms, etc). Other V2H or V2G is very premature at this point. Where I am, I can't even sell back to the grid right now. So, I think it would be foolish for a car maker to spend time developing a technology/system to serve 1 states needs out of 50. I think lower cost power walls makes more sense now. V2H or V2G might make more sense as battery technology progresses.
in hurricane country, one can have multiple day or week outages. We don’t have wildfires or peak demand issues BUT we have a terrible grid. Elon already said the capability is there and was used but nobody really used it. With the massive improvements, V2G is a most valuable option. I don’t care about selling power. I just don’t want to rely on an awful, outdated grid!!!
 

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Elon already said the capability is there and was used but nobody really used it. With the massive improvements, V2G is a most valuable option. I don’t care about selling power. I just don’t want to rely on an awful, outdated grid!!!
Yeah, the proposition of using Vehicle to Grid or Vehicle to House is massively different now, than 2008. For one, we weren't having brownouts, even our weather was slightly better. For two, the house-side technology wasn't there yet. And for three, the Roadster is a vehicle you drive away from a storm, not a utility vehicle like a Cybertruck.

Most vehicles sit still most of the time. You just make sure they're charging from solar during the day - either by plugging into your house (for us non-commuters, or those not using it as a primary commuting vehIcle) or make sure to invest in helping workplaces so that public parking has solar overhead to charge an array of cars.

It's not that difficult. Not compared to a decade ago. Solar is much, much cheaper. Switching EVSE can be bought off the shelf. We're at the point it makes sense now.

-Crissa
 
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hobbit11

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Yeah, the proposition of using Vehicle to Grid or Vehicle to House is massively different now, than 2007. For one, we weren't having brownouts, even our weather was slightly better. For two, the house-side technology wasn't there yet. And for three, the Roadster is a vehicle you drive away from a storm, not a utility vehicle like a Cybertruck.

Most vehicles sit still most of the time. You just make sure they're charging from solar during the day - either by plugging into your house (for us non-commuters, or nit using it as a primary commuting vehIcle) or make sure to invest in helping workplaces and public parking has solar overhead to charge an array of cars.

It's not that difficult. Not compared to a decade ago. Solar is much, much cheaper. Switching EVSE can be bought off the shelf. We're at the point it makes sense now.

-Crissa
My home solar panel system is properly sized so that it can power my home AND charge the CT on a nice, sunny day. Thanks for your most informed and eloquent response.
 

Crissa

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In 2008, I bought my first camping array. It was 12w per panel. I had to seek out a specialized solution to hook panels together. My second was 40w, four panels, the next year, using that special controller.

My third was in 2013. For the same size as the four panels, it was 100w, and everything came pre-assembled and wired.

I augmented that with another controller in 2018, and two more panels each were 40w in the same space as that original 12w panel. And the controller was a new type, not available except as an idea in 2008. I don't even know what to do with the original 40w of panels on my roof... I had been using them to charge batteries but now it's so little power...

New houses have to have a circuit wIred to the parking space for charging now. In 2008 those non-automated ones were rare, specialized farm equipment. Now can get switch-overs at Amazon for non-automated, or you can have automated stuff installed pretty much from any electrician.

Things have changed, even before you look at the vastly different market between Roadster buyers and current Tesla buyers.

-Crissa
 

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For most people solar panels provide power in the day time. Many people use their vehicles to drive somewhere in the day time. Now they aren't using energy in their house or charging their vehicle. Some people could sell the excess energy back to the grid and the utilities could build battery storage to store the excess but that approach means if utilities have problems no one has power. Better approach have smaller battery local.
The new batteries have a ~56% cost reduction so powerwall will get more affordable.
Adding V2G to cybertruck will cost something... Raising the price of the vehicle to provide a solution that isn't a good solution instead of engineering a good solution (powerwall) and engineering a lower cost for that perfect solution would be a terrible idea. C'mon Elon lower the price of powerwall.
That's one model of a household, but there are lots of different households with different choices. The other interesting thing Les, look at the make-up of CT owners. A crap load of us are retired, Plus a crap load of us this is not our only car. Why have all that storage sitting there on your property not being useful!
 

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That's one model of a household, but there are lots of different households with different choices. The other interesting thing Les, look at the make-up of CT owners. A crap load of us are retired, Plus a crap load of us this is not our only car. Why have all that storage sitting there on your property not being useful!
Did you just say CT isn't useful? You sir (pun), are challenged to a dual for impuning the character of CT! 😃
 

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Did you just say CT isn't useful? You sir (pun), are challenged to a dual for impuning the character of CT! 😃
Dang I'm slow. It took me going back 2 times to understand how I said the CT isn't useful. :oops:
That's my point I guess, I want it to be useful and allow me to show off it's usefulness even when I'm not driving it! All night while I'm sleeping that champ could be out there on the driveway on Sentry duty, providing a warm cozy bed for the dog and providing electricity for the house. GOOD CYBERTUCK! I'll KEEP YOU LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sirfun

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Most ? Really? I am sure a lot of folks did not get that memo and are still on grid power.
I said most are going solar, meaning we're not there yet. But that's where we are headed. California has high energy bills. Lots of sun and a state goverment that wants to support Solar. As more & more of us buy EV's and put up solar, our neighbors will start asking questions. And realize how much money they can save.
 

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