Status
Not open for further replies.

TI4Dan

Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
149
Reaction score
219
Location
MT. USA
Vehicles
Ram 2500 Cummins, GMC 1500, LandRover Discovery 1, Suzuki GT750, Electra Glide Ultra Classic Limited, Electra Glide Sport, RX3 Cyclone
Occupation
Retired, added 5 days to my weekend
Country flag
I think Governor Newsom has put the cart before the horse, It would be a beautiful thing if all California vehicles are EV's. The limiting factor here is the grid and lack of power generation. In the heat of the summer with peak demands they have rolling blackouts.
In 2018 California used 285,488 Gwh and had to import
90,647 Gwh. There are approximately 15.1 million vehicles in the state and 256,800 are EV,s. California is unable to supply the current demand for electricity, what is the plan to come up
60000 Gwh? ( base on 4000 kwh per year of a average EV driver)
The state is in a 90000 Gwh deficit now. Of course all cars will not change immediately but who is going to pay for all that clean power? Many western states still have coal fired plants as California also has. My electricity rates went up and some of it comes from the Bonneville Dam, I live in Montana. I also read were the Northwest could have rolling blackouts too. I don't use electricity to heat my home but I need it for my furnace in the winter. Yeah sounds so damn simple till we have to sit in the Dark.
Sponsored

 

Newton

Well-known member
First Name
Newton
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
1,081
Reaction score
1,529
Location
East Bay Area, CA
Vehicles
p̶r̶i̶u̶s̶ c̶,̶ y̶o̶t̶a̶ p̶i̶c̶k̶u̶p, ⼕丫⻏?尺セ尺ㄩ⼕长
Country flag
I see huge solar projects and large windmills being installed a lot. Perhaps where I am in ca it's a special case, but solar and wind is cheaper and easier now then traditional power plants, if what I hear is correct. I suspect it will be changing over at about the same timeline.
Hopefully.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
126
Messages
16,227
Reaction score
27,094
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag

RedCoast

Active member
Joined
Apr 1, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
42
Reaction score
114
Location
Europe
Vehicles
Cybertruck Tri-motor
Country flag
This is stupid.

I love the cybertruck and tesla but government mandates like this do not advance technology they actually hold it back. I am not buying a Tesla car because it is saving the environment I am buying it because it is objectively a better car compared to the others available.

This mandate will hurt the poorest in society and delay the advance of technology.
 

Dids

Well-known member
First Name
Les
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,766
Reaction score
3,771
Location
Massachusetts
Vehicles
04 Tacoma, 23 Cybertruck
Occupation
Self
Country flag
This is stupid.

I love the cybertruck and tesla but government mandates like this do not advance technology they actually hold it back. I am not buying a Tesla car because it is saving the environment I am buying it because it is objectively a better car compared to the others available.

This mandate will hurt the poorest in society and delay the advance of technology.
The poorest rarely buy new vehicles. It will be another 20 years after the ban before there will be no ICE used available.
 


Newton

Well-known member
First Name
Newton
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
1,081
Reaction score
1,529
Location
East Bay Area, CA
Vehicles
p̶r̶i̶u̶s̶ c̶,̶ y̶o̶t̶a̶ p̶i̶c̶k̶u̶p, ⼕丫⻏?尺セ尺ㄩ⼕长
Country flag
The poorest rarely buy new vehicles. It will be another 20 years after the ban before there will be no ICE used available.
Agreed, plently of gas cars will available for a long time.

Also I dont see how this could possible hurt the lowest income people, only help. Making sellers only sell evs means companies will have to invest in ev related things... more supply for cars, batteries, charging stations, etc. thus making It potentially cheaper.
 

TI4Dan

Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
149
Reaction score
219
Location
MT. USA
Vehicles
Ram 2500 Cummins, GMC 1500, LandRover Discovery 1, Suzuki GT750, Electra Glide Ultra Classic Limited, Electra Glide Sport, RX3 Cyclone
Occupation
Retired, added 5 days to my weekend
Country flag
I understand EV owners do not align all charging needs at the same time, California is importing electricity to cover the current shortage. When I looked into how California,Oregon,Washington and Montana are producing electricity I found a surprising amount came from coal. The western grid operator is responsible for delivering power to western states. They are not able to supply the current power requirements under extreme loads. California does produce an incredible amount of power but the growth outpaced the ability to provide energy. Solar generation contributes 13.99% and wind generators add another 7.23% to California's total state production. This shows the current effort of electrical production in some of the renewable capabilities. The largest group of Hydro power is in the western states which are owned and operated by the Army Corps of Engineers or the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.
When I started to look into the idea of replacing ice vehicles, I had no idea of how much power we all need and were it comes from. California is not the only state that is embarking on this quest of complete EV adoption. Oregon and Washington also have initiatives to encourage EV adoption. The problem of power production effects all of us and it is possibly on a Federal level to upgrade our future production. I don't know how we are going to solve the problem but it always comes down to cost vs production performance.
 

GnarlyDudeLive

Well-known member
First Name
Darin
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
429
Reaction score
936
Location
Chicago
Vehicles
2004 F350 Dually (Tri-CT reservation)
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
I understand EV owners do not align all charging needs at the same time, California is importing electricity to cover the current shortage. When I looked into how California,Oregon,Washington and Montana are producing electricity I found a surprising amount came from coal. The western grid operator is responsible for delivering power to western states. They are not able to supply the current power requirements under extreme loads. California does produce an incredible amount of power but the growth outpaced the ability to provide energy. Solar generation contributes 13.99% and wind generators add another 7.23% to California's total state production. This shows the current effort of electrical production in some of the renewable capabilities. The largest group of Hydro power is in the western states which are owned and operated by the Army Corps of Engineers or the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.
When I started to look into the idea of replacing ice vehicles, I had no idea of how much power we all need and were it comes from. California is not the only state that is embarking on this quest of complete EV adoption. Oregon and Washington also have initiatives to encourage EV adoption. The problem of power production effects all of us and it is possibly on a Federal level to upgrade our future production. I don't know how we are going to solve the problem but it always comes down to cost vs production performance.

Love it or Hate it: There may be an opportunity for carbon based power plants in the future once EV's take a firm foothold and displace most petrol based vehicles via an offset advantage. As I (poorly) understand it, a current carbon based power plant can produce roughly 300 miles of EV range at roughly the same emissions costs that a petrol based car does traveling 100 miles. Is it perfect? No, but it is way better than were we stand today or in the foreseeable near future. Petrol Power plants are far more efficient than a size and weight constrained vehicle motor. Even solar and wind solutions do not not start out at zero emissions, there is some time frame where the manufacturing footprint has a carbon impact that has to be recouped before truly getting to net zero. Coupled with lifespan, disposal, non-greenhouse environmental impact and other factors make those sustainable energies a tricky solution. Heck even R&D of new sustainable energies have a measurable footprint and a lot of that effort is never recovered due to designs never making it to market of just failures in general.
 

Red61224

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
334
Reaction score
434
Location
//
Vehicles
Yugo
Country flag
Now the Gov is threatening an executive order to ban propane gas. For many, propane is how they run their emergency generators for when the power is OUT. So, no gas vehicles, no propane and he shut down the last nuclear power plant. Good NIGHT and pass the candles, please.
 


alan auerbach

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
554
Reaction score
446
Location
Waterloo, Ontario (West of Toronto)
Vehicles
'90 Isuzu PU (has to last until my CT arrives), '91 Grand Marquis, '02 Grand Cherokee (I'm so grand I can't stand it), e-bike.
Occupation
Retired prof.
Country flag
The open markets will have a huge impact between now and 15 years from now. How many people buy film cameras now? EV's will show their superiority and benefits to all well before 2035. I also agree, I don't like authoritarians making executive orders. Nobody likes being force fed.
So you don't accept wearing a helmet on a motorcycle or a seatbelt in a car? Or not selling cigs to kids? Or drunk driving? Or stopping at a red light?

Our lives are ruled by force-fed restrictions and requirements. We object initially but eventually stop thinking about them.
 

Sirfun

Well-known member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Threads
55
Messages
2,389
Reaction score
4,872
Location
Oxnard, California
Vehicles
Toyota Avalon, Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, Ford E-250
Occupation
Retired Sheet Metal Worker
Country flag
So you don't accept wearing a helmet on a motorcycle or a seatbelt in a car? Or not selling cigs to kids? Or drunk driving? Or stopping at a red light?

Our lives are ruled by force-fed restrictions and requirements. We object initially but eventually stop thinking about them.
Hi Alan, my comment on nobody likes being force fed. Had to do with, any authoritarian making a decree, or in this case the governor signing an Executive order without going through the proper channels and putting things up for a vote. In this case state legislature. I'm pretty sure all the examples you gave were voted on and agreed to by a majority. I guess we have a differing opinion of what force fed means.
 

MEDICALJMP

Well-known member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Threads
248
Messages
1,238
Reaction score
2,479
Location
Omaha, NE
Vehicles
Toyota Avalon, Rav4, Tri-motor Cybertruck
Occupation
Nurse
Country flag
The poorest rarely buy new vehicles. It will be another 20 years after the ban before there will be no ICE used available.
At least 20 years. Until this year my daughter drove a 25-year-old car. There are lots of people who keep cars forever. Hell, Jay Leno pounds and drives a steam powered car.
 

jerhenderson

Well-known member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
2,202
Reaction score
3,354
Location
Prince George BC
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Occupation
Correctional Officer
Country flag
Sometimes people need to be told what to do.... they're simply too dense to understand...like smoking and seatbelts.
 

jerhenderson

Well-known member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
2,202
Reaction score
3,354
Location
Prince George BC
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Occupation
Correctional Officer
Country flag
They could progressively raise the gas tax as more people drive ev gas prices are going to decline and something has to keep the price high or some people will just use alot of gas.
Gas prices will increase as less is used and demanded....Economics 101.
Sponsored

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top