CNN Reviews the Cybertruck

[SCTesla]

Incorrect.

EV marketshare has increased each and every year since I've been keeping track, back to 2010. That includes the most recent year, 2023, and for 2024 EV sales are on track to have another record breaking year.

Your problem is you have been listening to the mainstream media pushing false narratives. They do this because they know it will encourage people to avoid EVs. They still haven't told you that the best-selling car in the world last year was an American car, and it's a pure electric car, the Tesla Model Y.

The Tesla Model Y outsold every gas car offered in the most recent year.

ICE sales are the ones declining, not EVs. And any reasonable analyst will tell you that trend is highly unlikely to reverse:

Here's more EV market share using actual sales data up to the most recent year of sales:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electric-car-sales-share?time=earliest..2023&facet=none

Yes, EV market share continues to grow every year, not shrink.

EV marketshare has increased, but not Teslas. They are losing EV market share and total sales. Everything I have posted outside of projections from Q3 in regards to total sales being down is from Tesla (not MSM).

The Model Y is no longer the world's best selling car (It was 8th at the end of Q2). Their sales Q1 and Q2 have been down YoY from last year and deliveries for Q3 are down currently.

You basically didn't read anything I posted and just pushed your own narrative. Nothing I said is from MSM.

Tesla's demand, sales, and margins are declining. I didn't say anything about EVs in general.

Edit: Just in case you don't believe me:

https://ir.tesla.com/#quarterly-disclosure

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[Crissa]

EV marketshare has increased, but not Teslas. They are losing EV market share and total sales. Everything I have posted outside of projections from Q3 in regards to total sales being down is from Tesla (not MSM).

The Model Y is no longer the world's best selling car (It was 8th at the end of Q2). Their sales Q1 and Q2 have been down YoY from last year and deliveries for Q3 are down currently.

You basically didn't read anything I posted and just pushed your own narrative. Nothing I said is from MSM.

Tesla's demand, sales, and margins are declining. I didn't say anything about EVs in general.

Edit: Just in case you don't believe me:

https://ir.tesla.com/#quarterly-disclosure

Their margins are still multiples of their competition.

Seems like you didn't bother to face the actual point I made, even two posts later.

-Crissa

 

[SCTesla]

Their margins are still multiples of their competition.

Seems like you didn't bother to face the actual point I made, even two posts later.

-Crissa

I don't disagree with you.

Just stating that Tesla has reduced margins. They did say they would try to claw some of that back in the last earnings call. The higher margins helps when you aren't selling 10 million cars.

The only thing I am arguing is that Tesla is down this year, in sales, market share, and margins. Lower sales and lower margins isn't great. They've attempted to get creative with buying lower interest rates (from Wells and Chase) for new cars, but it's not helping.

 

[Crissa]

I don't disagree with you.

Just stating that Tesla has reduced margins. They did say they would try to claw some of that back in the last earnings call. The higher margins helps when you aren't selling 10 million cars.

The only thing I am arguing is that Tesla is down this year, in sales, market share, and margins. Lower sales and lower margins isn't great. They've attempted to get creative with buying lower interest rates (from Wells and Chase) for new cars, but it's not helping.

Without being able to tell people how much per month or a total cost, they're not going to be able to get butts in seats.

Investors want growth, profits is for suckers.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

EV marketshare has increased, but not Teslas. They are losing EV market share and total sales. Everything I have posted outside of projections from Q3 in regards to total sales being down is from Tesla (not MSM).

The Model Y is no longer the world's best selling car (It was 8th at the end of Q2). Their sales Q1 and Q2 have been down YoY from last year and deliveries for Q3 are down currently.

You basically didn't read anything I posted and just pushed your own narrative. Nothing I said is from MSM.

Tesla's demand, sales, and margins are declining. I didn't say anything about EVs in general.

Edit: Just in case you don't believe me:

https://ir.tesla.com/#quarterly-disclosure

You are speaking of Tesla's market share of only EVs declining? Why would you exclude ICE cars? That's what Tesla's cars compete against.

At one point about a decade ago Tesla had nearly all of the global EV market share. But EVs only comprised less than 0.01% of all auto sales. As other automakers start offering EVs, it's normal and expected for the dominant player to lose share of EV sales, even as they continue to increase total sales. This is a surprise to no one. No one auto company can make all the EVs in the world.

It also appears you are using one or two quarters numbers to create a false impression. I look at auto production and sales over full years because this smooths out the natural quarterly variations. No auto companies increase sales continually, auto sales are cyclic with many things, economic conditions so it completely normal for even the largest auto companies to have sales that go down over previous periods. It's expected.

You know what's amazing? That one automaker is still selling half (49.7%) of all EVs in the US. It takes 20 other auto companies to sell as many as Tesla. Any other auto company in the world would give their right nut to have half of the market. And, of course it's going to decline as more companies start selling new EVs into the market, we knew it would!

I would also caution against drawing trendlines using only quarterly results, the results are unpredictable when going down that rabbit hole. Eventually all new car sales will be electric. I can guarantee you Tesla will not still have 50% EV market share. It's even hard to fathom that they could have 20% of the global car market when the entire auto market has electrified.

My point stands, Tesla is continuing to increase their overall auto market share each and every year. Looking at only their share of EVs ignores ICE sales which are still the bulk of the market. They are the ones that are shrinking, not EV's.

 

[HaulingAss]

The only thing I am arguing is that Tesla is down this year, in sales, market share, and margins. Lower sales and lower margins isn't great. They've attempted to get creative with buying lower interest rates (from Wells and Chase) for new cars, but it's not helping.

Only if you limit sales to automotive, Tesla actually posted record revenues in the most recent quarter.

 

[SCTesla]

My point stands, Tesla is continuing to increase their overall auto market share each and every year. Looking at only their share of EVs ignores ICE sales which are still the bulk of the market. They are the ones that are shrinking, not EV's.

You narrative about EVs is not what I responded to. Only a rebuttal to this:

Tesla has increased their market share every single year and that trends looks to continue for as far as the eye can see.

That is inaccurate.

People who follow Tesla orders really close as investors saw demand start dropping midway through last year and inventory build up. Tesla pulled some massive inventory discounts, FSD trade in and things like free interior and exterior colors as well as dropping prices heavily (reducing margins).

They are ending their 3rd quarter in a row being down YoY in sales. 3 quarters in a row is a trend by every market measure there is. That means less people are buying Teslas than last year and if you look at the market share of new vehicles, Tesla has lost market share to hybrids and other EVs. Again, 3 years ago Tesla had a 74% market share in EVs and it's down to 49%.

You trying to skew what time period you and move the goalpost. I never said EV market share is shrinking, but Tesla is struggling this year with sales and demand. That's from Tesla and it's been asked point blank at the last 2 Earnings calls.

It's the reason Elon fired 20% of the company. Tesla has acknowledged that things aren't great and hope/believe RT/FSD will be the big save until new vehicles come out in a few years.

Only if you limit sales to automotive, Tesla actually posted record revenues in the most recent quarter.

Q2 was a 45% drop in profit YoY. Energy sales were amazing, but Auto sales/revenue is down.

The record 3 billion in energy revenue gave them a 2% increase in revenue.

Again, you can separate EVs vs. ICE and Tesla vs. everyone....Tesla is losing demand due to politics, limited choices, and pricing/margins (@Crissa ). They've also opened their walled garden by allowing all other EVs on the SC network, which is great for moving the world to EVs, but bad overall for Tesla car sales.

___________

On the subject of "all new car sales will be electric"...I believe that in most of Europe and maybe even China, but not the US, Japan, India, Africa, or South America for the foreseeable future. I doubt that happens in our lifetimes.

There's too much of the US who see EVs as a political statement and the infrastructure isn't there in most of the other countries. Japan is oddly still hoping for hydrogen, which is a ridiculous approach.

_____

Unless you have something tangible to refute what I have said, which I don't believe you have even attempted at this point, I'd like to move on in this thread.

CNN sucks, most believe this.

 

[jerhenderson]

You narrative about EVs is not what I responded to. Only a rebuttal to this:



That is inaccurate.

People who follow Tesla orders really close as investors saw demand start dropping midway through last year and inventory build up. Tesla pulled some massive inventory discounts, FSD trade in and things like free interior and exterior colors as well as dropping prices heavily (reducing margins).

They are ending their 3rd quarter in a row being down YoY in sales. 3 quarters in a row is a trend by every market measure there is. That means less people are buying Teslas than last year and if you look at the market share of new vehicles, Tesla has lost market share to hybrids and other EVs. Again, 3 years ago Tesla had a 74% market share in EVs and it's down to 49%.

You trying to skew what time period you and move the goalpost. I never said EV market share is shrinking, but Tesla is struggling this year with sales and demand. That's from Tesla and it's been asked point blank at the last 2 Earnings calls.

It's the reason Elon fired 20% of the company. Tesla has acknowledged that things aren't great and hope/believe RT/FSD will be the big save until new vehicles come out in a few years.


Q2 was a 45% drop in profit YoY. Energy sales were amazing, but Auto sales/revenue is down.

The record 3 billion in energy revenue gave them a 2% increase in revenue.

Again, you can separate EVs vs. ICE and Tesla vs. everyone....Tesla is losing demand due to politics, limited choices, and pricing/margins (@Crissa ). They've also opened their walled garden by allowing all other EVs on the SC network, which is great for moving the world to EVs, but bad overall for Tesla car sales.

___________

On the subject of "all new car sales will be electric"...I believe that in most of Europe and maybe even China, but not the US, Japan, India, Africa, or South America for the foreseeable future. I doubt that happens in our lifetimes.

There's too much of the US who see EVs as a political statement and the infrastructure isn't there in most of the other countries. Japan is oddly still hoping for hydrogen, which is a ridiculous approach.

_____

Unless you have something tangible to refute what I have said, which I don't believe you have even attempted at this point, I'd like to move on in this thread.

CNN sucks, most believe this.

It's the economy, silly. Easy to have 30% margin with 3% or lower interest rates. Well, easy for Tesla I mean.

 

[SCTesla]

It's the economy, silly. Easy to have 30% margin with 3% or lower interest rates. Well, easy for Tesla I mean.

Partially, absolutely.

People are still buying cars, but lower cost ones. That's in lart due to misinformation on the price and cost of up keep with a Tesla. There are some that are in the 30k range.

 

[Cyber Man]

I follow Tesla earning calls closely as an investor. They have point blank answered why there is a decline - they are in between growth periods. They have also said Tesla’s future is not just about selling cars. Think about it for a min. If you are building solid EVs that can last for decades, and if many of the buyers who want to buy one have already bought, you can’t keep selling same models to current owners with some minor upgrades. There should be a different revenue stream - Cybertruck, cheaper Teslas, Semi, RoboTaxi, Optimus, etc. People keep saying Tesla has this larger than life ambitions and pompous narratives, but many forget that unimaginable products have been delivered. If there is any company that can pull off all the above listed alternate revenue streams, that’s Tesla. Good luck betting on Rivian, and traditional OEMs can’t even get the design of a truck bed changed let alone build autonomous robots. We can split hairs all day long on how Tesla EVs are trending, but Tesla’s eyes are set on a much bigger prize. They are of course taking a huge bet. Time will tell what bets will pan out. Cybertruck was a huge bet; it did pan out well, and they did successfully mass manufactured an unimaginable magnificent machine. Go figure! My money is for the companies that push the boundaries and get things done! It’s not a fanboy narrative. It’s the narrative of anybody who sees the big picture with data. If anybody wants to see quarterly earnings call with a tunnel vision and drink kool aid MSM BS, nothing is stopping them from believing that Tesla is doomed. Go invest in or buy something else. Nobody is stopping anybody from telling how one should spend their hard earned money. Make no mistake - Tesla is pushing hard to sell current models to keep few revenue streams going, but they are also playing a much bigger bet. Tesla doesn’t play by the rules. Most should have figured this out by now. If you can’t ride this type of rollercoaster, exit is always open!

 

[Arctic_White]

You are speaking of Tesla's market share of only EVs declining? Why would you exclude ICE cars? That's what Tesla's cars compete against.

At one point about a decade ago Tesla had nearly all of the global EV market share. But EVs only comprised less than 0.01% of all auto sales. As other automakers start offering EVs, it's normal and expected for the dominant player to lose share of EV sales, even as they continue to increase total sales. This is a surprise to no one. No one auto company can make all the EVs in the world.

It also appears you are using one or two quarters numbers to create a false impression. I look at auto production and sales over full years because this smooths out the natural quarterly variations. No auto companies increase sales continually, auto sales are cyclic with many things, economic conditions so it completely normal for even the largest auto companies to have sales that go down over previous periods. It's expected.

You know what's amazing? That one automaker is still selling half (49.7%) of all EVs in the US. It takes 20 other auto companies to sell as many as Tesla. Any other auto company in the world would give their right nut to have half of the market. And, of course it's going to decline as more companies start selling new EVs into the market, we knew it would!

I would also caution against drawing trendlines using only quarterly results, the results are unpredictable when going down that rabbit hole. Eventually all new car sales will be electric. I can guarantee you Tesla will not still have 50% EV market share. It's even hard to fathom that they could have 20% of the global car market when the entire auto market has electrified.

My point stands, Tesla is continuing to increase their overall auto market share each and every year. Looking at only their share of EVs ignores ICE sales which are still the bulk of the market. They are the ones that are shrinking, not EV's.

I'd like to add one tiny tidbit: Even though Tesla's market share is decreasing (well, because Math), Tesla is still taking the lions share of profits.

I'm willing to bet that even when Tesla's market share drops to 20%, they would be taking 80% of the profits. This is because none of the legacy automakers are earning any money off of EVs, and no one even from China is making any money on EVs (unclear about BYD as they don't disclose their EV vs. hybrid sales/breakdown).

 

[Crissa]

It's only bad for Tesla sales because Tesla is unwilling to do anything about their CEO.

They have the margin to reduce prices.

They had the employees to keep up service.

They have the rather large pile of cash to make these investments.

But they're not. They didn't have to screw up their service. They didn't have to screw up their deployment of chargers and making the rest of the industry dependent upon them.

It was a choice to let the CEO use their company as a piggy bank and sink their revenue expansion and their stock price.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

I'd like to add one tiny tidbit: Even though Tesla's market share is decreasing (well, because Math), Tesla is still taking the lions share of profits.

I'm willing to bet that even when Tesla's market share drops to 20%, they would be taking 80% of the profits. This is because none of the legacy automakers are earning any money off of EVs, and no one even from China is making any money on EVs (unclear about BYD as they don't disclose their EV vs. hybrid sales/breakdown).

And I would like to add one tidbit to that. You are still thinking of "market share" only in terms of EVs. But Tesla sells into the entire auto market. Buyers can choose to by gas or electric, either one fills the same need, to get from A to B with you, your family and your stuff. EV sales erode ICE market share, not the other way around.

The market is a lot bigger than you think and Tesla's share of the automobile market share continues to expand each and every year. It's only contracting if you look at it in irrational ways, like only looking at their share of an expanding segment (or cherry-picking a very short time period).

Interestingly, Tesla makes more net profit margin on each EV sale than legacy auto makes on each ICE sale. And that is why this isn't going to end well for legacy auto. Tesla is just far more efficient at making what people want.

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