For retail customers, the lowest priced full-size pickup truck with 300mi range, Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER or Tesla Cybertruck?

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firsttruck

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Where did you read fleet only for the Pro model?
Ford is saying retail customers can buy the base 230mi F-150 Lightning Pro SR for $40K but Ford will not sell to retail the extended range 300mi F-150 Lightning Pro ER for $50K. Only corporate fleet customers will be allowed to buy 300mi F-150 Lightning Pro ER for $50K.

see twit below

---------------------------

Ford confirms retail customers won’t be able to buy F-150 Lightning Pro with extended range battery
By Darryn John
May 29, 2021
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fo...50-lightning-pro-with-extended-range-battery/
.....
Standard range is available to order for both retail and commercial customers, extended range is for commercial customers exclusively. Retail customers can enjoy the extended range XLT with more interior features like 15” screen, cloth seats and added driver technologies
— Elizabeth Kraft ( @ElizabethKraf12 - Ford North American communications manager ) May 28, 2021

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Bob Anderson

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Even as is, if you go through everything that comes with CT and pick the same options on lightening, you will pay a lot more. Elon has seen F150 reveal and unless major modification is needed (like to the cast), he will make sure CT remains a clear choice for most. The only one he may not want to challenge may be Pro. Lower Trims of both trucks are most likely the least profitable and if Elon is having problem catching up with the existing demand for CT and really want to accelerate electrification, he probably want as many Lightening Pros sold as possible.

Unlike Sandy, I think Platinum at $90K is not the most compelling Lightening choice. Pro however may get the attention of a lot of truck shoppers and fleet owners that otherwise would only look at ICE as an option. A lot of them don't like a big ass thin tablet slapped on the dash when they are moving around heavy metal objects, or a uni brow funky light on the front to give their coworkers something to pick on. It is all wheel drive. It still have some power for tools or one or two items at home during outage, have two rows and my favorite, a spare tire ;) At $27.5K or lower after Federal and state incentives the only obstacle will be Fords ability and willingness to produce. If CT1 is only produced after all CT2 and CT3 demands are satisfied, folks may be comparing a dual motor Pro with incentive with a single motor CT1 without. I still have my doubts Ford can produce Pro at that price in large numbers but if they can, I think Elon should leave it alone and stick with producing as many CT2 and CT3s as possible.

For me CT is a feel good truck and Lightening is a compromise truck. I consider CT2 the sweet spot for CT and Pro the sweet spot for F150. If I know I can get a CT2 at advertised price even a year later than a Pro, I will figure out a way to wait but if it is longer or unknown when Ford is asking me to pull the trigger and tax brakes are in play at that time, I may have to crush my dreams and go for the half price truck.
Yeah, I'd say this is where I stand as well.
 

Ehninger1212

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Ford is saying retail customers can buy the base 230mi F-150 Lightning Pro SR for $40K but Ford will not sell to retail the extended range 300mi F-150 Lightning Pro ER for $50K. Only corporate fleet customers will be allowed to buy 300mi F-150 Lightning Pro ER for $50K.

see twit below

---------------------------

Ford confirms retail customers won’t be able to buy F-150 Lightning Pro with extended range battery
By Darryn John
May 29, 2021
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fo...50-lightning-pro-with-extended-range-battery/
.....
Standard range is available to order for both retail and commercial customers, extended range is for commercial customers exclusively. Retail customers can enjoy the extended range XLT with more interior features like 15” screen, cloth seats and added driver technologies
— Elizabeth Kraft ( @ElizabethKraf12 - Ford North American communications manager ) May 28, 2021

---------------------------
Well.. thats disappointing.
 

dtruckman

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Confirmed by Ford's North American communications manager
$50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (ER is 300mi battery option) is NOT available to retail customers

For retail customers, who will have the lowest priced full-size pickup truck with 300mi range?

Answer: Tesla Cybertruck DM at $50K (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp)

Next might be $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).


Some EV Pickup Truck choices:

confirmed: $40K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro SR (standard range 230mi)
* available to corporate fleet customers and retail customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

confirmed: $50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (extended range 300mi with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* NOT available to retail customers. Can only be bought by corporate fleet customers.

confirmed: $50K Tesla Cybertruck Dual Motor (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers.

confirmed: $53K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT SR (standard range 230mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

rumor: $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).


---------------------------

Ford confirms retail customers won’t be able to buy F-150 Lightning Pro with extended range battery
By Darryn John
May 29, 2021
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fo...50-lightning-pro-with-extended-range-battery/
.....
Standard range is available to order for both retail and commercial customers, extended range is for commercial customers exclusively. Retail customers can enjoy the extended range XLT with more interior features like 15” screen, cloth seats and added driver technologies
— Elizabeth Kraft ( @ElizabethKraf12 - Ford North American communications manager ) May 28, 2021

---------------------------
There is really no comparison for the CT and the FixOrRepairDaily POS
 

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Range is NOT solved. Range remains KING. Range is a difficult n-hard problem to solve.

I feel buyer pain as range at 250mi. is a DAILY constraint. Battery is just not at parity with petrol range. But battery is here. It’s put fun back into driving. Range is improving and it is interesting to be at the bleeding edge to have a windscreen front row experience. Battery + BEV is better for CO2 warming reduction.

FORD put out a commendable product that is their forte -a work truck. I’d buy and flip yearly FORD Lightnings if I needed what Lightning sells. Lightning strikes me as a here now, gone tommorrow design.

I need a million mile 20 yr truck that will last the lifetime of its battery. That’s Cybertruck‘s million mile battery for my needs.
 

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Sandy's comment is more about Tesla competitors, and he is saying among the competitors, that right now he thinks Ford is ahead of the other Tesla competitors in the "competition is coming" pack. He said that Ford is going in the right direction not that Ford is even close to Tesla.

Ford is using LG Chem in Mustang Mach-e. SK Innovation the battery supplier for F-150 Lightning has been convicted of stealing LG Chem tech. I have not seen anything to indicate that SK innovation is anything other than just a clone of LG Chem tech that is used in Mustang Mach-e that started shipping four months ago.

In the video below that I believe was made several days after the F-150 Lightning reveal, Sandy says he thinks Tesla has increased their lead and is now 8 years ahead of the competition.

Interviewer asks Sandy, "Should Tesla worry?"
Sandy answers "NOoooo"

Sandy Munro Rethinks Tesla's Dominance
May 27, 2021
E for Electric
Sandy has spoken a little more on this:

Basically, he doesn't think of the Cybertruck as a "truck" and that they aren't really comparable:

“The Cybertruck I don’t think is made for contractors…that would be like buying an SUV and calling it your truck."
“The F-150, the Lightning, that’s for contractors and I think the Lightning did a good job – everything I’d ever want as a contractor is sitting right there…If I were a contractor that would be the truck I’d buy.”

I think it's a given that the tech is going to be better in the CT for the money, but in the end they probably aren't really going to steal sales from each other. I'm in between - I definitely would prefer the tech in the CT and I could get around the fact that it doesn't have all the utility of a traditional truck body. But the other day as I was backed up against a fence loading a bunch of wood and scaffolding into my current truck from the side, I was thinking how inconvenient it will be not to be able to do that.

Q & A with Sandy Munro - June 3rd, 2021 - Bing video
 
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firsttruck

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Sandy has spoken a little more on this:

Basically, he doesn't think of the Cybertruck as a "truck" and that they aren't really comparable:

“The Cybertruck I don’t think is made for contractors…that would be like buying an SUV and calling it your truck."
“The F-150, the Lightning, that’s for contractors and I think the Lightning did a good job – everything I’d ever want as a contractor is sitting right there…If I were a contractor that would be the truck I’d buy.”

I think it's a given that the tech is going to be better in the CT for the money, but in the end they probably aren't really going to steal sales from each other. I'm in between - I definitely would prefer the tech in the CT and I could get around the fact that it doesn't have all the utility of a traditional truck body. But the other day as I was backed up against a fence loading a bunch of wood and scaffolding into my current truck from the side, I was thinking how inconvenient it will be not to be able to do that.

Q & A with Sandy Munro - June 3rd, 2021 - Bing video

What year is your pickup?

Can you tell us the height of the bed sidewall top is from the ground?

Can you tell us the height of the bed bottom / open tailgate is from the ground?
 

CoyoteJim

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What year is your pickup?

Can you tell us the height of the bed sidewall top is from the ground?

Can you tell us the height of the bed bottom / open tailgate is from the ground?
Sure...It's a '96 F-250. The top of the sides are about 4 1/2 feet off the ground and the floor of the bed is about 34" off the ground...almost counter height. I estimate the midpoint of the CT's sail pillar is going to be at least 5 1/2 feet off the ground...still possible to swing something over it but not as easy and more of a drop on the other side, especially if it's a long item.
 
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firsttruck

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Sure...It's a '96 F-250. The top of the sides are about 4 1/2 feet off the ground and the floor of the bed is about 34" off the ground...almost counter height. I estimate the midpoint of the CT's sail pillar is going to be at least 5 1/2 feet off the ground...still possible to swing something over it but not as easy and more of a drop on the other side, especially if it's a long item.

When the Cybertruck suspension is in the lowest position shouldn't the sail panel mid-point be close to what your truck height is for the bed side top. The Cybertruck bed floor might actual get down lower (24-26" range)?

Are the Cybertruck tires 35 inches in diameter?

In the picture of Cybertruck lowered with tailgate ramp for Cyberquad, what is an estimate of how low is the bed floor back-end (@tailgate) off the ground?

https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-22-cyberquad-electric-atv-cybertruck-tesla.html
 

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When the Cybertruck suspension is in the lowest position shouldn't the sail panel mid-point be close to what your truck height is for the bed side top. The Cybertruck bed floor might actual get down lower (24-26" range)?

Are the Cybertruck tires 35 inches in diameter?

In the picture of Cybertruck lowered with tailgate ramp for Cyberquad, what is an estimate of how low is the bed floor back-end (@tailgate) off the ground?

https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-22-cyberquad-electric-atv-cybertruck-tesla.html
The problem is what is shoulder height for most people. I'm 6'1" so I'm ok lifting heavy objects over a 4'5" wall and dropping them on the other side. Change that even by 4" and now I'm lifting uphill to put something in the bed. If it slopes you still have to lift over the high end. The CT is listed at 75", if that's standard height and you could drop it an additional 6" I think it would still be 60" mid point of the bed wall.
Loading from the back is fine, I don't have any problem with that and the ability to tilt the bed will help with that but I don't think it will do anything for the side access. How important is side access? I use it quite a bit - when I have to back right up against a fence or a wall to load or on those occasions when you have to park parallel on a busy street and someone is parked behind you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm somewhere around order # 7,500 so I'm still probably getting the Cybertruck, but I'll have to use it for a while doing regular types of tasks to see how much of an issue it is.
 
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Side access is the elephant in the room.

Sandy is correct to judge the tradesmen preference will accrue to the FORD Lightning. I’m a GC, owned and worked pu, flat, tilt beds; lift gate, lift deck even and can attest that all are purpose-driven. All niche applications. Each uniquely suited to performing work.

Cybertruck , a portmanteau, is more than a truck - faster than a sportscar. THAT was a risk FORD could not take. TESLA was able to take that gambit.

Elon made a rocket land on Earth. CT will land shortly… we can know Elon’s take on future truck’s then.
 
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firsttruck

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Here are interesting images from another thread.

Looks like the Cybertruck lowest position for bed height is much lower than modern Ford pickup.
Cybertruck lowest position for bed height looks close to knee height (25") instead of being almost waist height (34").

several images of Cybertruck & Ford bed heights
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...sh-3dc7b693ee89aca947354b8fcf0b8bc9-jpg.2297/


Cybertruck with ramp down & CyberQuad in bed
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...sh-3dc7b693ee89aca947354b8fcf0b8bc9-jpg.2298/


these images above are from thread
Loading and stepping up on the bed
Thread starter cybrnick
Start date Jun 17, 2020
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/loading-and-stepping-up-on-the-bed.1183/
 
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firsttruck

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Sure...It's a '96 F-250. The top of the sides are about 4 1/2 feet ( 54" ) off the ground and the floor of the bed is about 34" off the ground ... almost counter height.
Thanks for the data

'96 F-250 bed floor 34" off the ground (almost counter high) is quite high.

In the Jay Leno video, Elon was able to step up on the Cybertruck tailgate without any extra step or ramp. So again Cybertruck lowest adjustable height position is much lower than standard Ford pickup.

Looks like more current Ford pickups have grown in size & height
2019 F-250s with standard factory tires have ground to bed floor height of 37"-39".
Bed rail height (ground to bed side top) would be 57"- 60" (5 ft).

I estimate the midpoint of the CT's sail pillar is going to be at least 5 1/2 feet (66") off the ground...still possible to swing something over it but not as easy and more of a drop on the other side, especially if it's a long item.
Looks like when Cybertruck adjustable suspension is lowered to the lowest position the sail panel mid-point will be lower than current gen F-250s bed top rail.

Jay Leno is 5 ft 11 in (71 in) tall. In the video the sail panel mid-point looks to be well below his shoulder. He also lays his whole arm down on top of vault. Looks like he could have reached into bed if it had been open. You can also see Elon easily steps up onto tailgate (not counter height).

ELON MUSK, JAY LENO AND THE 2021 CYBERTRUCK (FULL SEGMENT) | Jay Leno's Garage
29,674,571 views
•May 28, 2020
 
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firsttruck

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Sure...It's a '96 F-250. The top of the sides are about 4 1/2 feet (54")off the ground and the floor of the bed is about 34" off the ground...almost counter height. I estimate the midpoint of the CT's sail pillar is going to be at least 5 1/2 feet off the ground...still possible to swing something over it but not as easy and more of a drop on the other side, especially if it's a long item.
1967 Ford F-100 had ground to bed floor height of 27"
bed rail top (top of sides) 48"
https://www.fordification.com/tech/dimensions.htm

Looks like more current Ford pickups have grown in size & height
2019 F-250s with standard factory tires have ground to bed floor height of 37"-39".
Bed rail height (ground to bed side top) would be 57"- 60" (5 ft).

2020 Ford F-250 Tremor bed rail top (top of bed sides) 61"
 
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CoyoteJim

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Thanks for the data

'96 F-250 bed floor 34" off the ground (almost counter high) is quite high.

In the Jay Leno video, Elon was able to step up on the Cybertruck tailgate without any extra step or ramp. So again Cybertruck lowest adjustable height position is much lower than standard Ford pickup.

Looks like more current Ford pickups have grown in size & height
2019 F-250s with standard factory tires have ground to bed floor height of 37"-39".
Bed rail height (ground to bed side top) would be 57"- 60" (5 ft).



Looks like when Cybertruck adjustable suspension is lowered to the lowest position the sail panel mid-point will be lower than current gen F-250s bed top rail.

Jay Leno is 5 ft 11 in (71 in) tall. In the video the sail panel mid-point looks to be well below his shoulder. He also lays his whole arm down on top of vault. Looks like he could have reached into bed if it was open. You can also see Elon easily steps up onto tailgate (not counter height).

ELON MUSK, JAY LENO AND THE 2021 CYBERTRUCK (FULL SEGMENT) | Jay Leno's Garage
29,674,571 views
•May 28, 2020
In these clips from that video, you can see that Jay Leno can just rest his arm at shoulder height at the very back of the Cybertruck. In the next instant Franz starts to open the vault and in the wider shot you can see by the clearance that the truck has probably already been lowered to its lowest height. I think the only spot to comfortably load the truck will be from the very back.

New trucks may be higher but perhaps people aren't using those for work. My truck is probably low compared to other 4x4s but I wouldn't want it any higher to actually use it for something.

leno3.jpg
 
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