Is Cyberbeast range really that much different than AWD?

[BorisJGR]

Any real-world use cases out there? Thinking of switching to the beast, but I tow a lot. Will it really be that much different with range?

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[ABILISK]

Tesla Models 3/Y share battery packs between the LR AWDs and the Performance models, but where they lose range is the wheel diameter. Bigger wheels/less sidewall eats some range because science.

We don’t have that problem with CT, we have an issue like the Models S/X have where we have the same battery pack and wheels, but we lose a bit of range just due to spinning a third motor - not nearly as noticeable as a wheel difference. Take the 2 most comparable models to CT, the X and Y:

Model X Range:
- AWD: 329
- Plaid: 314 (net loss 15 mi)

Model Y Range:
- LR AWD: 311
- Performance AWD: 277 (net loss 34 mi)

Model Y loses more than twice as much range as Model X due to having larger wheels. Spinning that third motor on the Plaid or the Beast doesn’t lose a whole lot of range and, in my opinion, it’s well worth it.

You can also put the Beast in sport or (hate to say it…) chill mode to conserve some range if needed, but it’s probably not really noticeable between the two.

 

[smcnaughton829]

When I was towing my S for 250 miles I was getting between 800-1000 w/h based on speed. At an 80% charge I was very hard pressed to make it 120 miles. And that was doing 65-70 mph.
I’ll attach a photo so you can see exactly how it was setup. Best guess in weight was just about 7k. I mean if I really wanted to do the math I could but I’m lazy lol.

 

[tmeyer3]

Bigger wheels/less sidewall eats some range because science.

Got this one in reverse. Generally a shorter, stiffer sidewall decreases rolling resistance at the cost of ride quality.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

Tesla Models 3/Y share battery packs between the LR AWDs and the Performance models, but where they lose range is the wheel diameter. Bigger wheels/less sidewall eats some range because science.

We don’t have that problem with CT, we have an issue like the Models S/X have where we have the same battery pack and wheels, but we lose a bit of range just due to spinning a third motor - not nearly as noticeable as a wheel difference. Take the 2 most comparable models to CT, the X and Y:

Model X Range:
- AWD: 329
- Plaid: 314 (net loss 15 mi)

Model Y Range:
- LR AWD: 311
- Performance AWD: 277 (net loss 34 mi)

Model Y loses more than twice as much range as Model X due to having larger wheels. Spinning that third motor on the Plaid or the Beast doesn’t lose a whole lot of range and, in my opinion, it’s well worth it.

You can also put the Beast in sport or (hate to say it…) chill mode to conserve some range if needed, but it’s probably not really noticeable between the two.

Model 3 LR does not have the same battery pack as the Performance. There are other factors besides the wheel size. Range loss with the CT will be what they project.

 

[Jedi2155]

Tesla Models 3/Y share battery packs between the LR AWDs and the Performance models, but where they lose range is the wheel diameter. Bigger wheels/less sidewall eats some range because science.

This is absolutely incorrect. Wheel diameter impacts range much less than you think and is a common misconception. Range impact is more about tire rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag. You'll see most of the range loss due to the composition of the rubber/grip patterns which is why the AT tires on Cyber Wheels have 318 mile range vs AS core wheels have 340 miles.

Wheel diameter/size typically impacts weight, and thus unsprung weight. Unsprung weight is important because in terms of added vehicle weight, its roughly a 4x multiplier. Say a 20" rim on a performance Tesla is ~32 lbs/rim vs 25lbs/rim for an 18" rim, meaning its 7 lbs of added unsprung weight per wheel. Multiply that by 4 tires, and 4x factor (7x4x4) = an extra 112 lb of weight on the vehicle equivalent to large child or a tiny adult.

Weight, however makes minimal impact on rolling resistance, i've been told adding roughly 500 lbs of weight on a 3600 lb vehicle only increases tractive force requirements by roughly 5%. Compare that to tire composition can impact rolling resistance by a significantly large fraction.

 

[ABILISK]

Model 3 LR does not have the same battery pack as the Performance. There are other factors besides the wheel size. Range loss with the CT will be what they project.

Yeah that’s true now, I was thinking of the 2023 Model 3/Current Model Y

 

[ABILISK]

Take it up with this guy if you don’t believe me on wheel diameter. He seems to know what he’s talking about.

 

[Jedi2155]

Take it up with this guy if you don’t believe me on wheel diameter. He seems to know what he’s talking about.

He compared wheel width, while you just mentioned wheel diameter (which most people correlate with rim size) which of course impacts aero drag (205mm width compared to 305mm width). Most people think 18" vs 20" changes wheel diameter, but it doesn't, its only impacting rim size but the aspect ratio of the tire will change.

I've also watched a couple of real engineering videos in the past, and he's definitely an oil shill now.

 

[REM]

Take it up with this guy if you don’t believe me on wheel diameter. He seems to know what he’s talking about.

This dude has been patently wrong on multiple occasions, but hey... he's on YouTube so he must be right.

 

[Cyber Man]

Any real-world use cases out there? Thinking of switching to the beast, but I tow a lot. Will it really be that much different with range?

I’m getting ~300 miles on Beast with AT tires. I use Sports mode most of the time but absolutely try not to drive recklessly. IMO, 20 miles range difference between AWD and Tri is totally worth upgrading to Beast if range is the only thing that you are contemplating. You are absolutely going to love the Beast!

You just need to have good self control. The Beast begs you to be unleashed. If you give up to your temptations, forget range or tire wear and tear! ?

 

[ABILISK]

This dude has been patently wrong on multiple occasions, but hey... he's on YouTube so he must be right.

Well I don’t claim to fully understand everything about physics, but what he says makes sense and all 4 of the sexy cars come with a larger wheel option that decreases range sooo…

 

[SentinelOne]

I’m getting ~300 miles on Beast with AT tires. You just need to have good self control.

Yeah, I must be doing it wrong....easier said than done! .

 

[ABILISK]

He compared wheel width, while you just mentioned wheel diameter (which most people correlate with rim size) which of course impacts aero drag (205mm width compared to 305mm width). Most people think 18" vs 20" changes wheel diameter, but it doesn't, its only impacting rim size but the aspect ratio of the tire will change.

I've also watched a couple of real engineering videos in the past, and he's definitely an oil shill now.

+ @tmeyer3 watch from about 6:22-9:30. If you took physics at some point this should come back to you. There’s a reason the S/X/3/Y all offer larger wheels and they all have lower range. If you can’t accept that fact you’re just plain wrong.

 

[ABILISK]

I’m getting ~300 miles on Beast with AT tires. I use Sports mode most of the time but absolutely try not to drive recklessly. IMO, 20 miles range difference between AWD and Tri is totally worth upgrading to Beast if range is the only thing that you are contemplating. You are absolutely going to love the Beast!

You just need to have good self control. The Beast begs you to be unleashed. If you give up to your temptations, forget range or tire wear and tear! ?

When you’re not towing, give in to your temptations. Electricity is cheap.

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