Less control on FSD v14

[DanK]

georgek43 said it perfectly. Mine often shows the wrong actual speed limit. If the actual speed limit could be adjusted, all would be good.

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[Cybertruck2024]

The devs are weaning us off of manual input. It's the right path forward, but it comes with growing pains. Also, most of the speed errors are the government's fault for having flat-out incorrect GIS data.

Disengage, and send a proper report and these issues will start clearing up. Along with submitting map data corrections too.

The issue is I just cannot use FSD in its current state. If Tesla would accept the speeding tickets and I could defer the points on my license to Tesla, I would use it every day. As is, I can't turn it on.

 

[Gigahorse]

The speed seems to be way off on FSD 14.

On a 55mph highway in standard mode it had no problem going 15mph+ over. It wasn't flow of traffic either, in standard mode it was passing everyone. It kept going to the left lane and going 5-10mph more than flow of traffic. Funny enough I passed a Model S who was getting a speeding ticket shortly after I turned off FSD because it wanted me to get in trouble. I assume the Model S didn't turn off FSD.

Later on I was on a 55mph country road, FSD was certain it was 45mph, despite repeatedly passing the 55mph signs.

The actual driving and maneuvering is very impressive. But there needs to be a way to better control the speed, or for us to send the speeding fines to Tesla to cover.

Think they removed the scroll wheel speed adjust a bit prematurely.

 

[REM]

The issue is I just cannot use FSD in its current state. If Tesla would accept the speeding tickets and I could defer the points on my license to Tesla, I would use it every day. As is, I can't turn it on.

The issue is I just cannot use FSD in its current state. If Tesla would accept the speeding tickets and I could defer the points on my license to Tesla, I would use it every day. As is, I can't turn it on.

Are you using sloth mode? I don't have a problem with it speeding in my area; even when its displaying the incorrect speed limit.

 

[Doc John]

Embrace the Robotaxi. Relax and let the car drive. If it really is going 15 over (and everyone else is doing the same), you can set it to Sloth and it won’t exceed the speed limit. I know nobody who drives at the speed limit though.

Well when the robotic gets the ticket that’s good with me. For now I’m responsible and HP love my Hwy pulling 8 -10 over.

The speed seems to be way off on FSD 14.

On a 55mph highway in standard mode it had no problem going 15mph+ over. It wasn't flow of traffic either, in standard mode it was passing everyone. It kept going to the left lane and going 5-10mph more than flow of traffic. Funny enough I passed a Model S who was getting a speeding ticket shortly after I turned off FSD because it wanted me to get in trouble. I assume the Model S didn't turn off FSD.

Later on I was on a 55mph country road, FSD was certain it was 45mph, despite repeatedly passing the 55mph signs.

The actual driving and maneuvering is very impressive. But there needs to be a way to better control the speed, or for us to send the speeding fines to Tesla to cover.

exactly! I have a lot of HPs on my hwy that will pull 8-10 over. When there is a robotaxi driving and the owner of that vehicle gets a ticket I’m all about keeping it simple but if I’m responsible I would prefer to have more control. Also since you can’t switch off FSD now while driving, you are stuck on a long trip without pulling over. Makes no sense

 

[georgek43]

They are trying to achieve autonomy. Like you are riding in a taxi and not doing anything. So that's their reasoning.

I agree that is likely the logic, and it will allow collection of terabytes of data on the FSD models already on the road to move forward with the goal of truly autonomous driving. But it’s just not there yet, and without 100% accurate speed limits on the navigation system, it is a safety hazard and a ticket risk. If Tesla Vision could read and actually follow speed limit signs, that would be a step in the right direction.

The devs are weaning us off of manual input. It's the right path forward, but it comes with growing pains. Also, most of the speed errors are the government's fault for having flat-out incorrect GIS data.

Disengage, and send a proper report and these issues will start clearing up. Along with submitting map data corrections too.

I’ll take your very sage advice- I’m sending those reports. And you are correct, much of the GIS data is incorrect, and no matter how good the Tesla engineers are, if it’s GI it’s GO. That makes it even more important to restore the manual override for max speed. Right now, in my neighborhood, FSD is unusable. Do you know of any way to directly contact Tesla other than the verbal reports?

Are you using sloth mode? I don't have a problem with it speeding in my area; even when its displaying the incorrect speed limit.

I am using sloth mode. It says 30mph on my screen in my 15/25mph neighborhood, and goes 30mph+. I’ve been using FSD almost 100% of the time since purchase a year ago- now I cannot use it at all. It’s unsafe, frustrating and unnecessary. Removing the ability to override maximum speed has got to be one of the worst decisions ever made by Tesla and is going to sink the brand if it’s not restored. I embrace improvements and autonomous driving - but removing the ability to adjust max speed setting is a safety fiasco and usability debacle. It must be restored immediately.

 

[AlmostHuman]

Simply not going to happen at this point; they aren't going to fragment the stack again as the end state is to remove input from the drivers completely.

I know. I just want to say it once in a while for therapy

 

[Cybertruck2024]

Are you using sloth mode? I don't have a problem with it speeding in my area; even when its displaying the incorrect speed limit.

I did not have it in sloth mode. I will give it a shot next time and be watching very closely. I hope that doesn't mean indecisive merges, I like when it merges with confidence, I just don't want to be doing 15mph over the speed limit everywhere.

 

[JCERRN]

I just dont understand the logic behind the modes.
Why is “sloth” mode the only mode that doesnt break the speed limit by default?

My opinion is that it should be as follows:
Sloth: if you want to drive 5-10 mph under the speed limit, prioritizes driving in the right lane, gentle acceleration, and almost no lane changing
Chill: if you want to drive right at the speed limit and not exceed it, prioritizes right lane driving but will pass slower vehicles
Standard: should prioritize driving with the flow of traffic, middle lane driving, and shouldn't exceed the speed limit by more than 5-10 mph regardless of traffic flow. Can pass slower vehicles but not agressively
Hurry: for those in a rush, prioritizes passing, left lane driving, often drives around the speed of traffic but will try to maneuver around slow downs.
Mad max: for those who want frequent lane changes, driving in the “fast lane” and drive faster than the flow of traffic, but should still limit to 15 mph over the speed limit (which is a pretty expensive ticket)

Ultimately, the vehicles speed is still the driver’s responsibility and i stand by the idea that if im driving in chill or standard, and FSD speeds, i disengage and report, as the AI should not be trained that speeding by default is acceptable. MA charges $100 for the first 10mph over, and then $10 for every MPH after that. That adds up pretty quickly. Over 20 over you get a reckless driving charge and can lose your license.

 

[Djinndjinn]

Like several others on this post, not only does my CT not read the speed signs correctly in many areas in our town, it goes way above the speed limit in “normal mode“. Posted 25 miles an hour, the CT knew it was 25 miles an hour, but was happily going 35 miles an hour.

I’m wondering with these new profiles, what does offset do? So if you set a relative offset of say five, is this additive on top of what the new profile would do? I wonder if this is part of the problem I’m having. What do people have their offset set at with these new profiles? Should it be zero? Not understanding the behavior of offset in the setting of these new profiles…

 

[SCTesla]

Like several others on this post, not only does my CT not read the speed signs correctly in many areas in our town, it goes way above the speed limit in “normal mode“. Posted 25 miles an hour, the CT knew it was 25 miles an hour, but was happily going 35 miles an hour.

I’m wondering with these new profiles, what does offset do? So if you set a relative offset of say five, is this additive on top of what the new profile would do? I wonder if this is part of the problem I’m having. What do people have their offset set at with these new profiles? Should it be zero? Not understanding the behavior of offset in the setting of these new profiles…

Offset does nothing with FSD. That's an option for TACC only.

If you want to go the speed limit, the profile you switch to is Sloth.

Yes, there are issues with FSD getting the wrong speed limit. We will all see them.

Tesla stated that manual control of speed was too difficult with E2E FSD. The choice was a worse product or they pick the speed. They chose the latter.

 

[Djinndjinn]

If offset does nothing with the new FSD categories, why is it an active choice if the profile is set to FSD? Shouldn’t it be ghosted? If my profile is set to FSD, there is no TACC option (in the old days you could do one push for TACC or two pushes for autopilot).

 

[georgek43]

No matter what Tesla says about difficulty of programming manual maximum speed control, there’s really no excuse for cutting out the ability to set a maximum speed. It was done in previous FSD versions, it could be done for FSD14.

Tesla cannot control the stunning amount of data that provides speed limits to the navigation systems- my understanding is that information is GIS provided, and that there are billions of errors around the country where the GIS data does not match posted speed limits. (You see the same speed limit errors in Google maps, Apple Maps and several stand alone navigation systems). No navigation system will ever get the speed limits correct 100% of the time because the data provided is full of errors- that’s the core reason you need manual override control. Setting profiles and letting the AI choose speed is ‘cool’, and maybe a step toward autonomous driving, but it’s a significant and foolish downgrade in safety and usability for existing vehicles.

Personally, I believe manual maximum speed limit control is not at all a programming difficulty- it was cut out with the primary purpose of gathering real world data for the RoboTaxi, and to demonstrate and promote acceptance of full autonomous driving-but it’s going to do just the opposite. It is using the Tesla fleet of privately owned vehicles as a real world demonstration lab.

whatever the Tesla reasoning and motivation just doesn’t matter- the feature must be restored if Tesla wants a near term future with FSD. I’m a big supporter and an early adopter of FSD, but I won’t risk my family’s safety or the safety of others on the road.

Ultimately, all the reasons or excuses for cutting out manual control are irrelevant. For now, until this is corrected, my FSD is essentially unusable- it consistently operates the vehicle at unsafe and illegal speeds. Your forced choice with FSD14 is to be unsafe and risk speeding tickets, or to shut off FSD and drive the car manually. That means FSD becomes a constant frustration rather than a driver assist, and is effectively unusable. No responsible owner will allow their vehicle to drive unsafely or even illegally. Tesla will absolutely have to reinstate the ability to have manual control of maximum speed- it’s not an if, it’s a when.

Tesla has had the best self driving system anywhere- I replaced my lovely and comfortable Cadillac Lyric (which had SuperCruise) with a Tesla primarily because of Tesla’s FSD. The CT is much more utilitarian, and extremely cool, but it’s not nearly as comfortable or nice as a Cadillac. And to be frank, there are a whole lot of much nicer vehicles out there to choose from than Teslas- the hook for Tesla is the FSD. If I can’t use it because it’s unsafe, there’s no good reason to keep a Tesla. I bought the FSD outright instead of a subscription because I intended to be a lifelong serial Tesla owner. If this doesn’t get fixed, I’ll have to reevaluate.

Sloth mode is irrelevant because it follows the navigation provided speed limits, not the posted speed limits. About 90% of my driving is local, and on every road I drive, some or all of it has a posted speed limit that’s lower, sometimes much lower, than what the navigation system thinks the speed limit is. That translates to a 90% loss of my ability to use my $8k FSD system, all for a really foolish developer decision. Again, Tesla will absolutely have to reinstate the ability to have manual control of maximum speed- it’s not an if, it’s a when. The question is how long will I have a loss of my previously treasured FSD?

If for some unfathomable reason it really is too hard to program manual override of maximum speed (I do not for a moment believe that, but for sake of argument), then the developers must figure out how to get the vehicles to read posted speed limit signs, process that critical information and actually follow the speed limits. That does not happen with this software version. At the very least, reading posted speed limits and following them needs to be done immediately, and should have been done right from the initial launch of FSD (some say it’s already there- not so)

Whether its following posted speed limits (should already be happening but it does not) or restoring manual maximum speed control (my preference, and we need both), something has to be done by Tesla to fix this ridiculous downgrade in safety. And quickly.

 

[REM]

I am using sloth mode. It says 30mph on my screen in my 15/25mph neighborhood, and goes 30mph+. I’ve been using FSD almost 100% of the time since purchase a year ago- now I cannot use it at all. It’s unsafe, frustrating and unnecessary. Removing the ability to override maximum speed has got to be one of the worst decisions ever made by Tesla and is going to sink the brand if it’s not restored. I embrace improvements and autonomous driving - but removing the ability to adjust max speed setting is a safety fiasco and usability debacle. It must be restored immediately.

I think sloth is supposed to only exceed the speed limit in very rare evasive emergency maneuvers. can you get a recording of this happening? along with a general location (if you can, for privacy reasons). I'd like to look at the GIS data for that road.

 

[REM]

I just dont understand the logic behind the modes.
Why is “sloth” mode the only mode that doesnt break the speed limit by default?

My opinion is that it should be as follows:
Sloth: if you want to drive 5-10 mph under the speed limit, prioritizes driving in the right lane, gentle acceleration, and almost no lane changing

I generally agree with your idea of how it should work, but the unfortunate reality is that going slower than the posted speed limit dramatically increases collisions due to other drivers being stupid and trying to overtake (or worse, ride someone's bumper aggressively).

Tesla knows this due to the crazy amount of data they have crunched over the years. So far in my experience, sloth and chill are pretty close, with Sloth trying to stay exactly at the posted limit, and chill goosing it maybe an addition 3 mph when traffic and road conditions make sense.

What most people likely don't realize either is that your personal driving profile with Tesla keeps track of your driving habits, and v14 uses that to try and match your style.

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