Pack level specific energy density vs cell level

[Crissa]

It is a long way. But then you have projects like this:

https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakt...rforms-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/

-Crissa

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[tidmutt]

It is a long way. But then you have projects like this:

https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakt...rforms-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/

-Crissa

Yeah! Super cool tech, I've read about that research.

The thing is though, Elon on numerous occasions has opined about how batteries are "getting there" which one presumes he is referring to Tesla's batteries. Yet, it doesn't seem like it. He claims to have a design for a VTOL plane and is waiting for batteries to catch up, but again, he makes it seem like the day is fast approaching, he even hinted that 4680s are a stepping stone to that day.

Is this Elon just being overly optimistic or is there something tangible to support his claims?

 

[Cybr on]

This has been a good read. Thank you two! ?

 

[Crissa]

Elon is overly optimistic ^-^

But that's good! You need dreamers to be out in front.

-Crissa

 

[tidmutt]

Elon is overly optimistic ^-^

But that's good! You need dreamers to be out in front.

-Crissa

Agreed. Was hoping to find something concrete to backup his optimism.

 

[CyberGus]

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/07/wright-tests-its-2-megawatt-electric-engines-for-passenger-planes

 

[rr6013]

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/tesla’s-new-structural-battery-pack-—-it’s-not-cell-to-pack-it’s-cell-to-body.1788/

<Snip>
The other part of my question remains... how does any of this make electric planes more of a reality?
<Snip>

FYI eVTOL numbers

 

[rr6013]

So would it be fair to say that we're kind of blurring the line here about pack level energy density.

Absolutely…NOT

You missed the whole point of the exercise. If the cell level energy density = cell level density of the two packs continues its grasp you wont get to understand the pack level density dynamic, negative mass and how work is derived on the pack level energy density.

In the first instance, the battery chemistry improvements because “technology” embue the 4680 energy density with more RANGE - Free(as in free range)!

Secondly, measurable weight saving engineering, IP and secret Tesla sauce takes away the over- burden of the prior conventional pack. At the same time 4680 provides fewer cells which enables the critical mass to tightly configue down the centerline of the vehicle. That improves performance in handling, turn-in and acceleration. Trick!

Third, tricks are cumulative. Turning 4680 into structure provides rigidity that enables Engineering to carve further over-burden out of the vehicle that the structural pack is now picking up. So mass above the pack is not even seeing amount of load that the conventional pack dictated. Side-effects are lower center of mass, quicker velocities in 3° of freedom and higher energy transfer due to reduction in energy loss through flex. Rigidity translates directly to friction at the point rubber meets terra-firma. Here you can grasp the effect as NEGATIVE MASS.

Lastly, Tesla choice of reference is to attribute all of it to pack level energy density but for the cell energy calculation it has stated and published for 4680 design. Minus weight, the technological and engineering innovation IP gains pack level energy density equivalence boils it down to a “number” for sake of simplicity. It’s nothing simple about what Tesla has accomplished. That’s why it’s trick

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