Profit protection against resellers/scalpers.

[cvalue13]

The cost you paid for your Lariat ER was far below Ford's cost to produce.

what exactly was ford’s cost to produce, on a normalized all-units basis?

you have that data?

do you also have figures for what corporate good will Ford’s assigning to the Lightning project as a loss-leader?

Yes, $87K would be a very expensive truck but people who can afford to make the stretch, will stretch hard for a truck that is far superior to a F-150 Lightning.

Who hurt you?

What is it about hearing that someone likes a non-Tesla vehicle that prompts this type of automatic, non-sequitur, self-masturbatory, “lesson”-giving on the superiority of the CT?

If nothing else, can we dial it down until the truck actually exists?

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[Ogre]

Tesla has your answer for you. They aren’t worried about wait lists and scalping. Or at least clearly feel their current policy is sufficient. Because they just did a massive price drop on everything.

Wait lists are back.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...-teslas-model-y-lr-qualifies-for-rebate.5933/

 

[Crissa]

I just don't see the issue... Ticket scalping is different. They buy up all the tickets and resell them for higher prices. Tesla could deliver only 1 vehicle per buyer per year and who cares if the first guys immediately turn around and sell Thiers for twice as much. People didn't sign up early and don't want to wait. Next time sign up early.... Or pay more.
A bit different if someone orders 10 vehicles and sells them but it easy for Tesla to prevent that.

The scalpers sign up a hundred different IDs. Each sale looks like a unique person, but it's the same guy, over and over again. Just like the ticket scalpers.

-Crissa

 

[charliemagpie]

just skimming :

1. Those discounts aren't across the whole Tesla Range, will serve as a lever to keep the sales numbers topped up to max production capacity.

2. They removed the excess increases incurred during the inflationary period. I reckon perhaps half of what has been discounted would have been reversed anyway.

3. Austin will start producing the Y in much bigger numbers. Lowering COGS
and the benefits of scale will increase Tesla's profit per vehicle.

I reckon what we are seeing is the stars aligning.. the discounts pick up the $7500 customer discount, and it happens to fall in place with our economy of scale. Discounts were coming whichever way.

Tesla is not giving the competition a free hit. Now customers have a Tesla option.

The other companies would be bleeeeeding right now. !

 

[Ogre]

If nothing else, can we dial it down until the truck actually exists?

Lotsa trooff here. You get to enjoy your truck for a year, maybe 3-4 before you’d be able to get a Cybertruck.

 

[Crissa]

Regarding the OP’s misunderstanding: money made by a scalper is not money lost by Tesla.

This is literally money lost by Tesla. It's also miles driven lost. And less happy customers.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I had to vote "Yes, as described below" because the poll didn't offer sufficient options.

I think Tesla's current policy of requiring purchasers to verify they are not buying for the purpose of re-selling. This doesn't prevent a purchaser from deciding they bought the wrong vehicle and re-selling it, and it doesn't prevent someone from lying and immediately selling, but it does prevent serial scalpers who buy multiple Tesla and immediately sell them.

Tesla doesn't take legal action against people who try to do that, but it does give them a legal basis for refusing to sell them additional vehicles without it opening Tesla up to successful discrimination lawsuits when they refuse to sell to someone who then turns around and sues them and claims they are refusing to sell them additional vehicles because they are black or Jewish or whatever.

The free market should rule, but I do hope Tesla nips the serial scalpers in the bud so those waiting in line don't have to wait too much longer than necessary.

What is the difference to the market or Tesla if it’s a serial scalper or thousands of individuals doing it once?
There’s no difference at all.

I don’t believe the protections in place are sufficient considering the unprecedented demand.

Who do you think the queue jumpers would prefer to purchase their Cybertruck from;

1. Some random on the internet that is providing no value add for the expense?
   OR
2. From Tesla through a transparent auction process?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Tesla has your answer for you. They aren’t worried about wait lists and scalping. Or at least clearly feel their current policy is sufficient. Because they just did a massive price drop on everything.

Wait lists are back.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...-teslas-model-y-lr-qualifies-for-rebate.5933/

Model 3/Y are a completely different situation. The demand backlog for Cybertruck is around 5years…. Minor price fluctuations in 3/Y adjust waitlist a couple of months.

After 18-24 months there are enough vehicles available as genuine secondhand sales that price gouging is minimal. I’m not sure that would happen in each market until year 3 or 4 for Cybertruck.

As is obvious from the poll, the objectors are not interested in engaging in the topic and only want to preserve their potential for parasitic profit.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

This is literally money lost by Tesla. It's also miles driven lost. And less happy customers.

-Crissa

What do you mean by miles driven lost?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I had to vote "Yes, as described below" because the poll didn't offer sufficient options.

Why not “Yes, but I have a better idea.”

 

[Deleted member 3316]

This all breaks down the societal contract of lines. If you get there first you get the item or service first. If I was number 1 on the list. After completing the sale, paying full price, is the vehicle mine or does Tesla still have rights of control?

Is it fair is someone put in 100 orders and is going to flip them? I say yes.
Don't get me wrong but where does this go?
If Tesla is going to blackball someone at this point to punish them, I am sure they will have a lawsuit on their hands.
I have not completed a sale with Tesla yet so I can only guess that the contract says but I find it highly unlikely that Tesal gets to say what you can do with the vehicle after you pay for it.

So imagine for me;

If you were a carpenter hand making beautiful chairs that you spend hours making each one, selling online with minimal sales overhead and global reach. Your product is exquisite and receive so many orders that it was years worth of work so you create a wait list.
You sell them at a modest profit, but multiple people are actually drop shipping your product making 40% more off your work by fabricating scarcity.

Would you be ok with that?
Do you honestly think that’s fair?

I think it’s indefensible dishonesty.

Genuine buyers cannot purchase directly from you because of the waitlist but the chairs are so nice they’ll pay significantly more for one to get it in their home.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Regarding the OP’s misunderstanding: money made by a scalper is not money lost by Tesla.

This is the dumbest thing I’ve read in this thread yet. Please read the post above this one.

 

[JBee]

Don't forget Tesla is not cash constrained. They can't spend it faster than they make it in a supplier restricted global market. They have factories sitting their "under producing".

In regards to the scalping problem, can anyone put a actual number on how many vehicles would be resold this way out of the potential order pool?

10 scalpers per 1000 units (that's 5000 per 500,000) or 100 scalpers per 1000 (50,000 per 500,000) ?

I'm not sure that there are significant enough numbers to impact Tesla pricing.

 

[cvalue13]

This is literally money lost by Tesla. It's also miles driven lost. And less happy customers.

-Crissa

Customer feelings are a separate matter.

You’ll have to explain how it is money
Tesla.

Product manufacturers are not ticket event sales, on any relevant metric.

This is the dumbest thing I’ve read in this thread yet. Please read the post above this one.

Doesn’t having the dumbest post on the dumbest thread have a double-negative effect?

Maybe you’re the second coming of business and marketing theory, and I’m just too dumb to recognize - me along with every other manufacturing business praying for demand that outstrips supply attendant with a vibrant secondary market.

But until I’m enlightened by you, I’ll just continue being a consultant in the luxury design and manufacturing space.

Awaiting your enlightenment, I’ll prepare a condolences card to Rolex for all its lost revenue and poor business performance resulting from a decade of every model demanding a 30-100% premium in secondary markets.

Strange, though, that you’re the only one solving this for sophisticated businesses - you’d think they might of thought of these “solutions“ if they’d only recognized the problem.

 

[Dids]

The scalpers sign up a hundred different IDs. Each sale looks like a unique person, but it's the same guy, over and over again. Just like the ticket scalpers.

-Crissa

Pretty sure auto sales involve tax id. So unless that guy has many ss# it would show

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