Tesla’s Elon Musk highlights Cybertruck’s uniqueness, explains adoption of yoke

FutureBoy

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How holding the steering wheel at the old '10-and-2' spot could tear off your hands in a crash | Daily Mail Online

Driver Airbag Hand Injuries; 10 and 2 is Not the Rule (hmpgloballearningnetwork.com)

The second article makes the point that thumbs should not be hooked inside the wheel and honking at the moment of impact places your entire hand in the center of the blast which can propel your hand towards your face at 200 mph. The yoke style steering wheel solves both of these issues with old-school round steering wheels.
Wait... How does the yoke style steering wheel solve the issue of honking at the moment of impact and blasting your hand at 200 mph? Does the yoke move the location of the horn? Seems like the horn location would be harder to unlearn in an emergency than the yoke vs wheel issue.
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firsttruck

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True, and this is an under-reported fact, the results of a high hand position can be partucularly gruesome. Yet, people continue to hold the wheel at the 10 and 2 o'clock position even though it threatens two of the most important parts of a persons body - their hand/wrist area and their face/neck area. Old habits are hard to break but the modern yoke steering wheel forces a safe holding position.

How holding the steering wheel at the old '10-and-2' spot could tear off your hands in a crash | Daily Mail Online

Driver Airbag Hand Injuries; 10 and 2 is Not the Rule (hmpgloballearningnetwork.com)

The second article makes the point that thumbs should not be hooked inside the wheel and honking at the moment of impact places your entire hand in the center of the blast which can propel your hand towards your face at 200 mph. The yoke style steering wheel solves both of these issues with old-school round steering wheels.

Tesla is just using pragmatic analysis of crash injury data to keep it's customers as safe as possible and yet people act like they are being reckless or jumping on fleeting fads. No, they are using the data to reduce customer injuries. They know they cannot re-train their customers to hold their products in the safe zone so they make the safe zone the only place to naturally hold on and relocate the horn button to a location that is actually safe to use.
Well If safety with airbags was one of their reasons for the new implementation it sure would help if Tesla & Elon would say so.
 

Crissa

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Wait... How does the yoke style steering wheel solve the issue of honking at the moment of impact and blasting your hand at 200 mph? Does the yoke move the location of the horn? Seems like the horn location would be harder to unlearn in an emergency than the yoke vs wheel issue.
Yes, the horn is to the left right of the airbag instead of under it.

If your thumb is on the horn, hand will just be swept to the side as the bag inflates.

The little things Tesla thinks about.

-Crissa
 
Last edited:

Gordon E Peterson II

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I hadn't really thought about this until you mentioned "low grip", but now I think I see the "big advantage" for people using FSD. You can rest your elbow on the armrest and hold the bottom left/ right corner of yoke. Thats very near what I end up doing with the wheel now.
The Citroen DS21 had a single-spoke steering wheel with the spoke in the 7-8 o'clock position... and it was great for precisely that reason.
 

Gordon E Peterson II

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The Citroen DS21 had a single-spoke steering wheel with the spoke in the 7-8 o'clock position... and it was great for precisely that reason.
BTW that was also the car that innovated the use of stalks for most everything... lights, horns, etc etc.... instead of buttons/knobs on the dash or elsewhere.
 

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Is there anything new in this article? Seems like its just summing up a bunch of known stuff. If there is a new tweet or event where Musk said some of this, the lack of a link is frustrating.

Hadn't thought about it before, but Musk is tacitly suggesting that the yoke is better for F$D but nothing about people using the truck without F$D. Sort of a sideways admission that they are primarily designing for F$D and things might be less than optimum if you are not opting into the Full $elf Drive experience.


The notable thing isn't so much that you need to spend up for the best, it's that they are willing to make the base experience a little less good to improve the FSD experience.

So pony up if you want the best Tesla experience folks.
I hear ya brother, try this link, truck and tractor operators have been using these for years: https://www.amazon.com/Vehicle-Stee...ocphy=9026617&hvtargid=pla-491097616736&psc=1
 

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Yes, the horn is to the left of the airbag instead of under it.

If your thumb is on the horn, hand will just be swept to the side as the bag inflates.

The little things Tesla thinks about.

-Crissa

1631735761986.png


From this image it looks like the horn is to the right of airbag. And it is really small. And pretty far away from your hand. And not really easy to find without looking for it.

I guess this will keep most people from using the horn in emergency situations.

Not really the ideal situation but really, how often does one use the horn? It's pretty rare for me. Though I do know that for some people the horn is used multiple times a day. Perhaps this will reduce the number of horn honks one will hear out and about.
 

Ogre

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Not really the ideal situation but really, how often does one use the horn? It's pretty rare for me. Though I do know that for some people the horn is used multiple times a day. Perhaps this will reduce the number of horn honks one will hear out and about.
Personally I rarely use the horn. It's occasionally useful to remind someone they need to put down their phone and drive when the light changes.

If it reduces the amount of unnecessary honking I have to listen to I think it's worth the trade off.
 

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FSD will be the default mode for all vehicles at some point in the near future. Also, if CT has steering-by-wire then a big wheel is not needed because there is less wheel/yoke rotation for the same net vehicle turning, I’m guessing. So not a big issue in my mind. Tho we shall see when I actually “get behind the yoke”. LOL!
-------------

Actually there are already production cars with variable ratio rack & pinon power steering systems

It is possible to have variable-ratio power steering without steer-by-wire
Some cars you get less than two turns lock-lock for parking but less sensitive lower ratio when pointed more straight ahead

---------------------------------------

Honda VGR (Variable Gear Ratio) - Honda Accord (1997)
Honda VGS (Variable Gear Ratio Steering) - Honda S2000 (year 2000)
Toyota VGRS - Toyota Land Cruiser (2002)
BMW Active Steering - BMW 5-Series E60 (2003)
2017 Honda Civic Type R - Chassis



AUTOZINE TECHNICAL SCHOOL > Steering > Variable Gear Ratio Steering
https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.html

---------------------------------------

Power steering > Electrically variable gear ratio systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering#Electrically_variable_gear_ratio_systems

.....
Electrically variable gear ratio systems

In 2000, the Honda S2000 Type V featured the first electric power variable gear ratio steering (VGS) system.[25] In 2002, Toyota introduced the "Variable Gear Ratio Steering" (VGRS) system on the Lexus LX 470 and Landcruiser Cygnus, and also incorporated the electronic stability control system to alter steering gear ratios and steering assist levels. In 2003, BMW introduced "active steering" system on the 5 Series.[26]

This system should not be confused with variable assist power steering, which varies steering assist torque, not steering ratios, nor with systems where the gear ratio is only varied as a function of steering angle. These last are more accurately called non-linear types (e.g. Direct-Steer offered by Mercedes-Benz); a plot of steering-wheel position versus axle steering angle is progressively curved (and symmetrical).


---------------------------------------

Electric power steering increases driver comfort
Peter Els
05/03/2017
https://www.automotive-iq.com/chass...ctric-power-steering-increases-driver-comfort

.....
Improved driver feel and feedback without losing the slow speed power assistance

A good example of how far EPS has progressed in this area is to be found on the 2017 Honda CR-V where the EPS incorporates dual pinion gears and a variable gear ratio for enhanced lowspeed maneuverability without sacrificing high-speed stability.

Compared to a traditional single-pinion steering system, the dual pinion EPS utilizes the physical steering input from the driver as well as from a supplementary electric motor. A non-contact torque sensor measures the driver’s steering effort and an ECU determines how much electric motor assist to add, with the result claimed to produce a seamless, naturalfeeling steering in all situations.

The steering ratio is variable over a 20-percent range with a final full off-center ratio of 12.3:1. This provides 2.3 turns lock-to-lock – significantly quicker than the 2016 CR-V’s 3.1 turns – enabling easier low-speed maneuvering and parking.

The variable ratio allows for slower gearing around the straight-ahead position for improved stability at high speeds. Also contributing to the enhanced steering performance and feel of the CR-V are reduced operating friction, a high level of stiffness for the steering mount, and a larger diameter, more rigid steering column shaft (8 mm larger than the 2016 CR-V).

However, for a driver to feel comfortable and in control of the vehicle it’s important that the steering remains predictable under all conditions.


---------------------------------------


BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - Active steering -Does anyone know the difference if they have active steering or not?
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668057

.....
03-27-2012, 03:24 PM #4
achien
you don't need to turn the steering wheel as much when you drive slow.
for example, you may not need to take your hand off the steering wheel to do the hand-over-hand overlap to turn.

.....
03-27-2012, 08:21 PM #8
PKizzle
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ktm.Moto
> My steering is very responsive at high speeds. If I barely touch the wheel I am heading in another direction. Kind of scary at times..
AS actually works the other way around ... it is very sensitive at lower speeds...you can go lock to lock in 1 1/2 turns or something like that at parking lot speeds, but slows down considerably (ie., more wheel movement required) as speed builds up. Takes getting used to.

.....
03-27-2012, 03:44 PM #5
Kolyan2k
Active steering a type of power electric variable gear ratio power steering technology introduced by BMW in 2003 first appearing on the redesigned 5-series which varies the degree that the wheels turn in response to the steering wheel. At lower speeds, this technology reduces the amount that the steering wheel must be turned – improving performance in situations such as parking and other urban area traffic maneuvers. At higher speeds, the performance is such that the normal increased responsiveness from speed is avoided and it provides improved directional stability.
In a parking situation, the computer varies the ratio so that the steering wheel needs less than two turns to move the wheels lock to lock. As vehicle speeds increase, the steering ratio increases, so it takes larger movements of the steering wheel to move the wheels and that lessens the usually increasing vehicle response resulting from increased speed. Besides providing variable steering ratios, the computer is linked with the vehicle stability control system to aid in directional stability of the vehicle.
If the driver experiences a skid or slide because of poor road conditions, the active steering will react to information from the yaw-rate sensors to modify the steering angle of the front wheels to stabilize the vehicle. This occurs much faster than the driver can react. If the active steering angle is not enough, then the stability control system intervenes to help as well.
Safety is one of the prime objectives of this system. Steering angle sensors on the steering column sense the direction the driver wants to go and the system only intervenes if the car is beyond stable limits. If an error or problem occurs in the electronics, the computer shuts down the operation of the electric motor, locking the ring gear of the planetary gear set and making it fixed-ratio steering. Finally, if there is a problem inside the planetary gear unit, there is a second shaft that runs all the way through from the steering wheel shaft to the steering rack so that conventional steering is available.



---------------------------------------


steering wheel requires less than two turns (instead of 3) lock-to-lock (all the way left to all the way right) while parking


Integral Active Steering of BMW 7 Series | BMW Genius How-To
Oct 22, 2015
BMW USA

---------------------------------------

2017 Honda Civic Type R - Chassis
June 14, 2017
https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/honda-civic-type-r-chassis

.....
Dual Pinion Variable Ratio Electric Power-Assisted Rack-and-Pinion Steering (EPS)
The Electric Power Steering (EPS) incorporates dual pinion gears and a variable gear ratio for exceptional steering feel and handling performance. Compared to a traditional single-pinion steering system, the dual pinion EPS utilizes the physical steering input from the driver as well as from a supplemental electric motor. A non-contact torque sensor measures the driver's steering effort and an ECU determines how much electric motor assist to add, with the result being seamless, natural feeling steering in all situations.

Uniquely tuned for the Civic Type R, the steering ratio is variable over a 17-percent range, with a final full off-center ratio of 11.7:1 and an on-center ratio of 14.9:1. This provides a quick 2.11 turns lock-to-lock, which minimizes hand movement and steering effort when turning, parking or maneuvering. High steering-mount stiffness and an increase in steering column diameter from 22 mm to 30 mm further enhance steering precision and feel.

Like the Civic Si Coupe and Si Sedan, the new Civic Type R has a larger electric motor and unique EPS tuning in comparison to other Civic models. In Comfort mode, the Civic Type R's EPS delivers a smooth, natural turning and handling response. This transforms into a noticeably more direct and linear feel when the driving mode is set to Sport, and to a highly direct and fully racetrack-ready steering feel in +R mode.

An integral part of the Type R's driving mode system, the steering feel automatically firms up when the mode is changed from Comfort to Sport or +R. The benefit for the Type R driver is firmer steering effort and substantially more direct feeling through the wheel in Sport mode, and additional steering feel, quickness and precision in +R mode.

---------------------------------------


What is rack and pinion steering?
https://www.moogparts.eu/blog/rack-and-pinion-system-with-power-steering.html

.....
Rack and pinion steering ratios

Most cars need three to four complete turns of the steering wheel to go from lock to lock (from far right to far left). The steering ratio shows you how far to turn the steering wheel for the wheels to turn a certain amount. A higher ratio means you need to turn the steering wheel more to turn the wheels a certain amount and lower ratios give the steering a quicker response.

Some cars use variable ratio steering. This rack and pinion steering system uses a different number of teeth per cm (tooth pitch) in the centre than at the ends. The result is the steering is more sensitive when it is turned towards lock than when it is close to its central position, making the car more maneuverable.


---------------------------------------


We Test Four Different Ratio Saginaw Power Steering Boxes
Road-testing four very different Saginaw power steering boxes
By Cam Benty
Apr 11, 2019
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1904-we-test-four-different-ratio-saginaw-power-steering-boxes/

.....
Lee Power Steering 16:1 variable (13:1 ratio at corners) box


---------------------------------------


Nexteer Dual Pinion EPS
Dual Pinion EPS allows for the primary pinion to be optimized for vehicle dynamics and performance and a secondary pinion to be optimized for assist. It also provides additional design flexibility to locate the motor, controller and assist mechanism opposite the driver side of the vehicle underhood.
https://www.nexteer.com/electric-power-steering/pinion-assisted-eps/


---------------------------------------


Dual Pinion drive electrically powered steering for C and D segment vehicles
Dual pinion drive EPS systems by ZF, offers a low cost rack-drive power steering solution for C and D segment passenger cars and mid-sized SUVs through to 13kN rack load. The technology provides CO₂ reduction and fuel economy (compared to hydraulic powered steering) as well as high-availability architectures to support automated driving features.

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_47682.html

---------------------------------------
 
Last edited:

Crissa

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1631735761986.png


From this image it looks like the horn is to the right of airbag.
Yes. I am shown to be dyslexic again. x-x

If it were to the left, it would be like my motorcycle puts it near the left handle.

-Crissa

PS, is anyone else distracted that in BMW's thumbnail, three cars are about to collide?
 

Ogre

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Plus one of those cars is parked on the sidewalk? That infographic hurts my brain.
 

Gordon E Peterson II

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-------------

Actually there are already production cars with variable ratio rack & pinon power steering systems

It is possible to have variable-ratio power steering without steer-by-wire
Some cars you get less than two turns lock-lock for parking but less sensitive lower ratio when pointed more straight ahead

---------------------------------------

Honda VGR (Variable Gear Ratio) - Honda Accord (1997)
Honda VGS (Variable Gear Ratio Steering) - Honda S2000 (year 2000)
Toyota VGRS - Toyota Land Cruiser (2002)
BMW Active Steering - BMW 5-Series E60 (2003)
2017 Honda Civic Type R - Chassis



AUTOZINE TECHNICAL SCHOOL > Steering > Variable Gear Ratio Steering
https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.html

---------------------------------------

Power steering > Electrically variable gear ratio systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering#Electrically_variable_gear_ratio_systems

.....
Electrically variable gear ratio systems

In 2000, the Honda S2000 Type V featured the first electric power variable gear ratio steering (VGS) system.[25] In 2002, Toyota introduced the "Variable Gear Ratio Steering" (VGRS) system on the Lexus LX 470 and Landcruiser Cygnus, and also incorporated the electronic stability control system to alter steering gear ratios and steering assist levels. In 2003, BMW introduced "active steering" system on the 5 Series.[26]

This system should not be confused with variable assist power steering, which varies steering assist torque, not steering ratios, nor with systems where the gear ratio is only varied as a function of steering angle. These last are more accurately called non-linear types (e.g. Direct-Steer offered by Mercedes-Benz); a plot of steering-wheel position versus axle steering angle is progressively curved (and symmetrical).


---------------------------------------

Electric power steering increases driver comfort
Peter Els
05/03/2017
https://www.automotive-iq.com/chass...ctric-power-steering-increases-driver-comfort

.....
Improved driver feel and feedback without losing the slow speed power assistance

A good example of how far EPS has progressed in this area is to be found on the 2017 Honda CR-V where the EPS incorporates dual pinion gears and a variable gear ratio for enhanced lowspeed maneuverability without sacrificing high-speed stability.

Compared to a traditional single-pinion steering system, the dual pinion EPS utilizes the physical steering input from the driver as well as from a supplementary electric motor. A non-contact torque sensor measures the driver’s steering effort and an ECU determines how much electric motor assist to add, with the result claimed to produce a seamless, naturalfeeling steering in all situations.

The steering ratio is variable over a 20-percent range with a final full off-center ratio of 12.3:1. This provides 2.3 turns lock-to-lock – significantly quicker than the 2016 CR-V’s 3.1 turns – enabling easier low-speed maneuvering and parking.

The variable ratio allows for slower gearing around the straight-ahead position for improved stability at high speeds. Also contributing to the enhanced steering performance and feel of the CR-V are reduced operating friction, a high level of stiffness for the steering mount, and a larger diameter, more rigid steering column shaft (8 mm larger than the 2016 CR-V).

However, for a driver to feel comfortable and in control of the vehicle it’s important that the steering remains predictable under all conditions.


---------------------------------------


BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - Active steering -Does anyone know the difference if they have active steering or not?
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668057

.....
03-27-2012, 03:24 PM #4
achien
you don't need to turn the steering wheel as much when you drive slow.
for example, you may not need to take your hand off the steering wheel to do the hand-over-hand overlap to turn.

.....
03-27-2012, 08:21 PM #8
PKizzle
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ktm.Moto
> My steering is very responsive at high speeds. If I barely touch the wheel I am heading in another direction. Kind of scary at times..
AS actually works the other way around ... it is very sensitive at lower speeds...you can go lock to lock in 1 1/2 turns or something like that at parking lot speeds, but slows down considerably (ie., more wheel movement required) as speed builds up. Takes getting used to.

.....
03-27-2012, 03:44 PM #5
Kolyan2k
Active steering a type of power electric variable gear ratio power steering technology introduced by BMW in 2003 first appearing on the redesigned 5-series which varies the degree that the wheels turn in response to the steering wheel. At lower speeds, this technology reduces the amount that the steering wheel must be turned – improving performance in situations such as parking and other urban area traffic maneuvers. At higher speeds, the performance is such that the normal increased responsiveness from speed is avoided and it provides improved directional stability.
In a parking situation, the computer varies the ratio so that the steering wheel needs less than two turns to move the wheels lock to lock. As vehicle speeds increase, the steering ratio increases, so it takes larger movements of the steering wheel to move the wheels and that lessens the usually increasing vehicle response resulting from increased speed. Besides providing variable steering ratios, the computer is linked with the vehicle stability control system to aid in directional stability of the vehicle.
If the driver experiences a skid or slide because of poor road conditions, the active steering will react to information from the yaw-rate sensors to modify the steering angle of the front wheels to stabilize the vehicle. This occurs much faster than the driver can react. If the active steering angle is not enough, then the stability control system intervenes to help as well.
Safety is one of the prime objectives of this system. Steering angle sensors on the steering column sense the direction the driver wants to go and the system only intervenes if the car is beyond stable limits. If an error or problem occurs in the electronics, the computer shuts down the operation of the electric motor, locking the ring gear of the planetary gear set and making it fixed-ratio steering. Finally, if there is a problem inside the planetary gear unit, there is a second shaft that runs all the way through from the steering wheel shaft to the steering rack so that conventional steering is available.



---------------------------------------


steering wheel requires less than two turns (instead of 3) lock-to-lock (all the way left to all the way right) while parking


Integral Active Steering of BMW 7 Series | BMW Genius How-To
Oct 22, 2015
BMW USA

---------------------------------------

2017 Honda Civic Type R - Chassis
June 14, 2017
https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/honda-civic-type-r-chassis

.....
Dual Pinion Variable Ratio Electric Power-Assisted Rack-and-Pinion Steering (EPS)
The Electric Power Steering (EPS) incorporates dual pinion gears and a variable gear ratio for exceptional steering feel and handling performance. Compared to a traditional single-pinion steering system, the dual pinion EPS utilizes the physical steering input from the driver as well as from a supplemental electric motor. A non-contact torque sensor measures the driver's steering effort and an ECU determines how much electric motor assist to add, with the result being seamless, natural feeling steering in all situations.

Uniquely tuned for the Civic Type R, the steering ratio is variable over a 17-percent range, with a final full off-center ratio of 11.7:1 and an on-center ratio of 14.9:1. This provides a quick 2.11 turns lock-to-lock, which minimizes hand movement and steering effort when turning, parking or maneuvering. High steering-mount stiffness and an increase in steering column diameter from 22 mm to 30 mm further enhance steering precision and feel.

Like the Civic Si Coupe and Si Sedan, the new Civic Type R has a larger electric motor and unique EPS tuning in comparison to other Civic models. In Comfort mode, the Civic Type R's EPS delivers a smooth, natural turning and handling response. This transforms into a noticeably more direct and linear feel when the driving mode is set to Sport, and to a highly direct and fully racetrack-ready steering feel in +R mode.

An integral part of the Type R's driving mode system, the steering feel automatically firms up when the mode is changed from Comfort to Sport or +R. The benefit for the Type R driver is firmer steering effort and substantially more direct feeling through the wheel in Sport mode, and additional steering feel, quickness and precision in +R mode.

---------------------------------------
The Citroen SM had very tight steering ratio (less than 2 turns lock-to-lock IIRC) but with variable assist (including powered centering!!). It came out around 1972. It was a GREAT car.
 
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