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Well, I don't care if it even has a radio..in the Subi it is covered in dust. I would like a discount and they can skip the "infotainment" :)
 

jerhenderson

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Yes it is a bit Rah-Rah :ROFLMAO: , but MOST of it is true.

The one exception that I found is that Tesla does not make their own computer chips. Tesla did DESIGN the self-driving computer chip(and maybe others?) but does not manufacture them. Tesla has TSMC(Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) to do this for them.

Defend the China market? Why would Tesla need to defend the China market? Is there something wrong with Tesla being in China?
China is wrong if you're an American that thinks isolationism works and that 1.5 billion people won't overtake 350 million people as the next primary superpower.
 
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China is wrong if you're an American that thinks isolationism works and that 1.5 billion people won't overtake 350 million people as the next primary superpower.
Isolationism doesn't work, economically or otherwise. Show me a country that practices isolationism and I'll show you a third world country or one that will soon be.
 

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China is wrong if you're an American that thinks isolationism works and that 1.5 billion people won't overtake 350 million people as the next primary superpower.
What do you mean by overtake? Does that mean world leader? Doesn't isolationism mean that you give up and allow that? Another thing that people don't get is that China is a dictator system. Power always corrupts and China can never overtake a democracy until it has a new political system. It only looks like it is but as it gets wealthier it's citizens will demand democracy to end the ever larger corruption.
 

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What do you mean by overtake? Does that mean world leader? Doesn't isolationism mean that you give up and allow that? Another thing that people don't get is that China is a dictator system. Power always corrupts and China can never overtake a democracy until it has a new political system. It only looks like it is but as it gets wealthier it's citizens will demand democracy to end the ever larger corruption.
WARNING: My GeoPolitical opinion
(it could be wrong and I reserve rights to change my mind with new information)

The re-education camps (or where it disperses ethnic people away from each other in labor programs) as well as the lack of support by other countries when its citizens did want a change in government (see Hong Kong riots) have pretty much let the Chinese government know they can do what they want.
Where were the world wide collations pushing sanctions against China like we have done with Iran, Iraq, and Cuba in the past?
 

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I dunno if i agree with cannot be copied. If it's one thing China excels at its making cheap copies of things.
 

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China can never overtake a democracy until it has a new political system.
Democracy helps, but uh... Nothing about profit requires it.

Being willing to dump externalities is probably the biggest boost. Not being wedded to incumbent industries is the other.

So far, China has been willing to so those things. And our democracy has not.

-Crissa
 

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Democracy helps, but uh... Nothing about profit requires it.

Being willing to dump externalities is probably the biggest boost. Not being wedded to incumbent industries is the other.

So far, China has been willing to so those things. And our democracy has not.

-Crissa
Profit? What profit is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul?
China is an ancient culture and at one time during imperial expansion it innovated. But most of its long history it failed to raise it's people beyond subsistence farming. By copying capitalism it has begun to change slowly but it is a huge bureaucracy and the purpose of bureaucracy is to stifle / kill innovation.
 

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Profit? What profit is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul?
Well, the measure of economics doesn't include that.

Capitalism needs those reins, yeah.

-Crissa
 

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The one exception that I found is that Tesla does not make their own computer chips. Tesla did DESIGN the self-driving computer chip(and maybe others?) but does not manufacture them. Tesla has TSMC(Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) to do this for them.
The leader of the chip design team said during autonomy day that the FSD chips are fabricated by Samsung in Austin, Texas.

I would argue that "designing" and "making" your own computer chip are pretty much the same thing, in the eyes of the layman. Who actually fabs it isn't super important, but technically you're correct.
 
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I would argue that "designing" and "making" your own computer chip are pretty much the same thing, in the eyes of the layman. Who actually fabs it isn't super important, but technically you're correct.
Agreed. After posting those comments I had thought about it and what Lars Strandridder said in the video and thought the same thing you said and was going to update my comments but I figured someone would call me on it anyway 😁

The leader of the chip design team said during autonomy day that the FSD chips are fabricated by Samsung in Austin, Texas.
I had not seen or read about Samsung fabricating Tesla's chips, only that Tesla had stopped using Samsung and was using TSMC. So I looked up some interesting things about this since you mentioned this.


This is from TECH CRUNCH: At its “Autonomy Day” today, Tesla detailed the new custom chip that will be running the self-driving software in its vehicles. Elon Musk rather peremptorily called it “the best chip in the world…objectively.” That might be a stretch, but it certainly should get the job done.

Called for now the “full self-driving computer,” or FSD Computer, it is a high-performance, special-purpose chip built (by Samsung, in Texas)


This is what I had read from Wccftech: Following this, news reports from Taiwan and China are now suggesting that Tesla too has joined the race to equip its products with chips manufactured on leading-edge semiconductor processes. As per the details, Broadcom and Tesla have partnered up to provide the latter's vehicle with a 7nm processor dubbed as HW 4.0. This chip will power Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) computer and Chinatimes expects that it will enter production in the fourth quarter of this year.

Tesla Partners Up With Broadcom To Equip FSD System With 7nm HPC Chip Packaged Without Substrate

Following production in 2020, the processor will not be available for use by the general public in Tesla vehicles before 2022, since mass production will commence in the fourth quarter of next year. TSMC's 7nm process node has taken the technology industry by storm, and following Samsung's yield problems with its manufacturing technology, the demand for the Taiwanese fab's products has witnessed an additional rise in demand with delivery and production schedules having been shifted forward.

Apart from being built on the 7nm node, the HW 4.0 chip will also utilize TSMC's Integrated FanOut (InFo) packaging technology that is designed to reduce overall package surface area and provide lower thermal resistance. Additionally, the processor will also be packaged using TSMC's latest System on Wafer (SoW) technology that removes the need to place a substrate and a printed circuit board (PCB) in the entire process. Via SoW, the HW 4.0 will be placed directly on the heat dissipation module, and today's report suggests that Indium Corporation will provide the thermal conductivity materials.

TESLA-FSD-COMPUTER-3-1030x530.png

Inside the Tesla Autopilot Hardware 3.0 computer. Image: @greentheonly/Twitter

Initial production slated to begin later this year will churn out 2,000 silicon wafers with the chip, with each wafer having a 12-inch diameter and consisting of 25 HW 4.0 chips. The decision to use TSMC's 7nm process node also marks another company choosing the Taiwanese fab over its Korean rival Samsung Electronics' Samsung Foundry division's chip fabrication facilities. Samsung, whose problems with Qualcomm Incorporated have been reported around the press, has taken the backseat in the semiconductor manufacturing space, where for the time being, TSMC has established itself as the clear leader.

TSMC's InFo SOW packaging uses route distribution technology to connect chips and power distribution units directly to the heat dissipation modules and subsequently reduces the surface area and improves thermal performance of the entire package. The HW 4.0 succeeds the processor that Tesla showed off last year, and its introduction into the company's vehicles will prove crucial for the company's long-term plans.

Drawing from the nature of its chief executive Mr. Elon Musk, Tesla, like Mr. Musk's other company SpaceX, has several long-term plans that set the company apart from traditional automakers. Tesla plans to introduce a service dubbed 'Robotaxi' that will allow the owners of its vehicles to earn money by simply putting up their cars for ridesharing services. The HW 4.0 will also arrive at a time when fifth-generation (5G) cellular networks have moved past their initial rollout, and subsequently, the processor will have to deal with increased data processing and connectivity needs.


TSMC is on the bleeding edge of semiconductor technology and that is why Tesla has since chosen TSMC over Samsung.

I posted this on August 21 in the thread Tesla is working on HW4.0 self-driving chip with semiconductor company TSMC with a timeline for mass production in Q4 2021

TSMC’s state-of-the-art plant in the southern city of Tainan has also started producing 5-nanometer chips designed for the new Apple iPhones. They are scheduled for launch in the second half of 2020, while the company expects its 3-nanometer chips to be ready for mass production by 2022. Source: Taiwan News
 
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Agreed. After posting those comments I had thought about it and what Lars Strandridder said in the video and thought the same thing you said and was going to update my comments but I figured someone would call me on it anyway 😁



I had not seen or read about Samsung fabricating Tesla's chips, only that Tesla had stopped using Samsung and was using TSMC. So I looked up some interesting things about this since you mentioned this.


This is from TECH CRUNCH: At its “Autonomy Day” today, Tesla detailed the new custom chip that will be running the self-driving software in its vehicles. Elon Musk rather peremptorily called it “the best chip in the world…objectively.” That might be a stretch, but it certainly should get the job done.

Called for now the “full self-driving computer,” or FSD Computer, it is a high-performance, special-purpose chip built (by Samsung, in Texas)


This is what I had read from Wccftech: Following this, news reports from Taiwan and China are now suggesting that Tesla too has joined the race to equip its products with chips manufactured on leading-edge semiconductor processes. As per the details, Broadcom and Tesla have partnered up to provide the latter's vehicle with a 7nm processor dubbed as HW 4.0. This chip will power Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) computer and Chinatimes expects that it will enter production in the fourth quarter of this year.

Tesla Partners Up With Broadcom To Equip FSD System With 7nm HPC Chip Packaged Without Substrate

Following production in 2020, the processor will not be available for use by the general public in Tesla vehicles before 2022, since mass production will commence in the fourth quarter of next year. TSMC's 7nm process node has taken the technology industry by storm, and following Samsung's yield problems with its manufacturing technology, the demand for the Taiwanese fab's products has witnessed an additional rise in demand with delivery and production schedules having been shifted forward.

Apart from being built on the 7nm node, the HW 4.0 chip will also utilize TSMC's Integrated FanOut (InFo) packaging technology that is designed to reduce overall package surface area and provide lower thermal resistance. Additionally, the processor will also be packaged using TSMC's latest System on Wafer (SoW) technology that removes the need to place a substrate and a printed circuit board (PCB) in the entire process. Via SoW, the HW 4.0 will be placed directly on the heat dissipation module, and today's report suggests that Indium Corporation will provide the thermal conductivity materials.

TESLA-FSD-COMPUTER-3-1030x530.png

Inside the Tesla Autopilot Hardware 3.0 computer. Image: @greentheonly/Twitter

Initial production slated to begin later this year will churn out 2,000 silicon wafers with the chip, with each wafer having a 12-inch diameter and consisting of 25 HW 4.0 chips. The decision to use TSMC's 7nm process node also marks another company choosing the Taiwanese fab over its Korean rival Samsung Electronics' Samsung Foundry division's chip fabrication facilities. Samsung, whose problems with Qualcomm Incorporated have been reported around the press, has taken the backseat in the semiconductor manufacturing space, where for the time being, TSMC has established itself as the clear leader.

TSMC's InFo SOW packaging uses route distribution technology to connect chips and power distribution units directly to the heat dissipation modules and subsequently reduces the surface area and improves thermal performance of the entire package. The HW 4.0 succeeds the processor that Tesla showed off last year, and its introduction into the company's vehicles will prove crucial for the company's long-term plans.

Drawing from the nature of its chief executive Mr. Elon Musk, Tesla, like Mr. Musk's other company SpaceX, has several long-term plans that set the company apart from traditional automakers. Tesla plans to introduce a service dubbed 'Robotaxi' that will allow the owners of its vehicles to earn money by simply putting up their cars for ridesharing services. The HW 4.0 will also arrive at a time when fifth-generation (5G) cellular networks have moved past their initial rollout, and subsequently, the processor will have to deal with increased data processing and connectivity needs.


TSMC is on the bleeding edge of semiconductor technology and that is why Tesla has since chosen TSMC over Samsung.

I posted this on August 21 in the thread Tesla is working on HW4.0 self-driving chip with semiconductor company TSMC with a timeline for mass production in Q4 2021

TSMC’s state-of-the-art plant in the southern city of Tainan has also started producing 5-nanometer chips designed for the new Apple iPhones. They are scheduled for launch in the second half of 2020, while the company expects its 3-nanometer chips to be ready for mass production by 2022. Source: Taiwan News
Very cool, thanks for providing that info. Of course, my relying on information from a year and a half ago, when dealing with Tesla, made me way out of date. And I believe they mentioned they were already working on HW4 back at that point. The InFo SoW product sounds really cool and I'm sure the thermal handling characteristics will be helpful on their newer designs when dealing with the sealed areas within the vehicle.
 

jerhenderson

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What do you mean by overtake? Does that mean world leader? Doesn't isolationism mean that you give up and allow that? Another thing that people don't get is that China is a dictator system. Power always corrupts and China can never overtake a democracy until it has a new political system. It only looks like it is but as it gets wealthier it's citizens will demand democracy to end the ever larger corruption.
A common flaw in American perspective is the belief that everyone in the world wants its version of democracy. China is rapidly overtaking the US with its current system and yes it will supercede the US as the world's primary superpower.... something the US will never regain once lost. The US has its own issues with corruption.... just look at Trump.
 

jerhenderson

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WARNING: My GeoPolitical opinion
(it could be wrong and I reserve rights to change my mind with new information)

The re-education camps (or where it disperses ethnic people away from each other in labor programs) as well as the lack of support by other countries when its citizens did want a change in government (see Hong Kong riots) have pretty much let the Chinese government know they can do what they want.
Where were the world wide collations pushing sanctions against China like we have done with Iran, Iraq, and Cuba in the past?
US involvement in sanctioning Iraq, Iran and Cuba were not always supported by the world, despite what you may be taught in the US. A reason those nations were sanctioned by the US had a great deal to do with their rejection of US puppet governments, US corporate meddling, and US military involvement and interest in their resources - and nothing at all to do with human rights.
 

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