Trump Tax Bill Passes in House: Major changes for EVs

[Gaximus]

Non EV counterparts to Model 3 and Model S from BMW weigh the same. Your premise is flawed at best. Plus the fact that passenger vehicles do proportionally little damage, a few hundred pounds either way won't matter.


Paying twice what an average ICE does is not "paying our way", it's punitive. Do not pretend otherwise.

Again. EVs do more damage, not a lot more, probably negligible, but more. So we should be paying some form of tax to cover basic maintenence, something equivalent to gas tax per mile. Its a tough problem, because states usually make money one gas tax, but there is no way to tell what state your driving in to pay that tax too. (Goverment tracking vehicle locations, is not something we want). Best thing to do, is get rid of gas tax completely and make all roads toll roads. That would be the most fair, and make the most amount of sense.

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[CyberGus]

Best thing to do, is get rid of gas tax completely and make all roads toll roads. That would be the most fair, and make the most amount of sense.

Big government should just get out of the road business altogether and let the free market solve the problem

 

[Cyberostachu]

Sounds like the intention is to make EVs more expensive than ICE cars, but I'm pessimistic. That would be each vehicle averaging almost 1400 gallons per year.

I thought I bought an EV because electricity is cheaper than gas. Now, all my gas savings go back to the oil companies, kind of? I did not save anything on fuel but I paid a lot for the CT. These people's brains are screwed up. That's when we have a govt that does not try to help solve climate change because it doesn't believe.

 

[Cyberostachu]

This country is really going to shit...this administration is causing so much brain drain.

Not only brain drain. It's also draining the last cent from the poor people and putting all the money to the already rich. The poor people can not afford to donate for their party. It's the billionaires that should get the tax cuts because they are the ones donating thousands of dollars. So, their investment is not on the little people. We have a president who is a moron. He favors the oil companies instead of helping prepare a good future for our grandchildren in combating climate change. And we have a congress that jumps higher than what their leader tells them to do. A yes man speaker that doesn't have a mind of his own. I don't want to be political in this website but we have it going well to promote conversion from old gas technology to the new EVs and boom, we're going back to the old shit. I guess that group can't handle technology to progress.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

It's not clear why you emphasize the Southern Hemisphere in terms of the speed of transition to electric vehicles.

The Southern Hemisphere, in it's entirety, only amounts to less than 7% of global light vehicle sales. The largest auto markets in the Southern Hemisphere are Brazil, Australia and South Africa, all of which have rapidly growing adoption of EVs. The next three largest markets are Argentina, Chile and New Zealand, all of which have rapidly growing adoption of EVs.

In other words, your analysis has serious flaws. Any reasonable analysis of the speed of transition to electric must look at the numbers honestly, not cherry pick parts of the globe that have very low automobile use to begin with, because those areas have a very low impact on the rate of the transition. The fact that they are lagging in adoption means almost nothing. The three largest auto markets in the world are China, the U.S. and Europe. And they are all making what can only be considered a very rapid transition to electric vehicles.

The transition to electric consistently outpaces the "expert" predictions. They are constantly updating their projections annually.

A few good points but incorrect on others. There have been fewer than 1,000 EV sales in South America. It is geographically incompatible with EVs except as city cars. Yes, economic activity is concentrated north of the equator (90%+ of GDP occurs north of the equator), but the lowest common denominator effect is real and has a significant impact on what is produced for basic transportation. Having traveled extensively throughout Africa, South America, SE Asia, western China, the stans, Siberia, Tibet and the Canadian territories, where even low grade fuel can be near impossible to find, and the villagers fire up the communal generator at the fetid water well for a half hour each day while everyone daisy-chains to charge their cell phones, it’s pretty clear to me that the kind of folks found on this forum have no idea how the real world lives. In most places on earth there are no flush toilets, paved roads or electric outlets of any kind except for self-generated. Half the population in China has never flushed a toilet. In many places I still see oxen pulling plows and the aspiration is to someday own a motorcycle or three wheel motorized farm cart. It ain’t all flat screen TVs and lattes out there folks, and EVs are a pure first world phenomenon.

 

[BannedByTMC]

Again. EVs do more damage, not a lot more, probably negligible, but more.

Again. EV's that weigh the same as ICE counterparts factually cannot do more damage.
Model 3 = BMW 3 Series, depending on the configuration the minor weight differences can go either way.
Same with Model S and comparable BMW or Mercedes offerings. Carrying heavy passengers vs being solo can have a much greater difference between the models, should vehicles carrying more people pay more? Of course not because it's meaningless. Yes the most fair tax would be yearly based on mileage and vehicle weight, easily implemented in states that already have yearly inspections. Heavy semis, buses, construction vehicles, etc., which do the most damage would pay the most.

 

[BannedByTMC]

There have been fewer than 1,000 EV sales in South America.

Was that a typo? Because it looks like 100,000 in Brazil just last year:

https://about.bnef.com/insights/cle...s-evs-get-a-big-boost-from-chinese-carmakers/

 

[CyberGus]

In many places I still see oxen pulling plows

It’s not rural China and third-world nations that need EVs. It’s the industrialized nations that are burning 100m barrels of oil every day.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

It’s not rural China and third-world nations that need EVs. It’s the industrialized nations that are burning 100m barrels of oil every day.

Totally missing the point and my other comments. Europe is NOT adopting EVs on a widespread basis. I am hiking in Spain for six weeks, on my third week. Lots of new ICE cars here. Hardly any EVs. There’s no transition happening here. I have an office in London, spend a lot of time in the UK. Almost zero penetration there (under 2% of 2024 vehicle sales). Norway is a dramatic exception but it’s not happening in other Nordic countries. Sweden and Finland are seeing 5x new ICE sales vs EV. Those cars are going to be around for a very long time. EVs in the EU are a PITA because very few people have garages and most depend on street parking. I have many friends in the UK and family in France. To a person, 100% say they will never drive EVs. Many of these people have visited my US homes and have driven my Teslas. It’s simply of no interest and is impractical. Europe is rapidly backing off all government support or mandates for EVs. The screw has fully turned. Japan is a huge car market. Essentially zero EV penetration there. So okay, let’s focus first world - same story. But the reality remains that the lowest common denominator still applies in vehicle manufacturing. Whatever works in Central America and Morocco will be made for wide markets, forever.

 

[65SoYoLO]

you want to pay a toll on every road?

 

[HaulingAss]

A few good points but incorrect on others. There have been fewer than 1,000 EV sales in South America. It is geographically incompatible with EVs except as city cars. Yes, economic activity is concentrated north of the equator (90%+ of GDP occurs north of the equator), but the lowest common denominator effect is real and has a significant impact on what is produced for basic transportation. Having traveled extensively throughout Africa, South America, SE Asia, western China, the stans, Siberia, Tibet and the Canadian territories, where even low grade fuel can be near impossible to find, and the villagers fire up the communal generator at the fetid water well for a half hour each day while everyone daisy-chains to charge their cell phones, it’s pretty clear to me that the kind of folks found on this forum have no idea how the real world lives. In most places on earth there are no flush toilets, paved roads or electric outlets of any kind except for self-generated. Half the population in China has never flushed a toilet. In many places I still see oxen pulling plows and the aspiration is to someday own a motorcycle or three wheel motorized farm cart. It ain’t all flat screen TVs and lattes out there folks, and EVs are a pure first world phenomenon.

Your EV sales "facts" are just plain wrong. And not by a little, by a ridiculously huge amount. In other words, you are talking complete garbage.

Fewer than 1,000 EV sales in South America? That's laughable! The number is around 80,000 in 2024 alone (and there were at least that many before 2024)! EV sales growth rates in many South American countries are measured in the double digits.

Flush toilets in China have little to do with EV adoption, plenty of Chinese without flush toilets have electricity and drive EVs!

 

[BannedByTMC]

And here comes the crash out...

“This massive, outrageous, pork-filled Congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination,” Musk posted Tuesday on the social platform X, warning that the bill will increase the federal deficit. “Shame on those who voted for it: you know you did wrong. You know it.”

https://apnews.com/live/donald-trump-news-updates-6-3-2025

 

[SlegMD]

Alliances aren’t what they used to be, evidently

 

[dalton108]

Alliances aren’t what they used to be, evidently

There’s nothing wrong with the construct of “alliances.” You’ve got an issue with the parties here. As I said previously, “not a reliable partner.”

At this juncture, I expect things to get considerably worse. For everything that we in the public have visibility on to be in the public sphere is … oof!

Tip of the iceberg. ?

 

[SlegMD]

There’s nothing wrong with the construct of “alliances.” You’ve got an issue with the parties here. As I said previously, “not a reliable partner.”

At this juncture, I expect things to get considerably worse. For everything that we in the public have visibility on to be in the public sphere is … oof!

Tip of the iceberg. ?

Alliances are great!

For the investment from EM/Tesla I would have expected something more… enduring.

Could also be a facade for EM for the rehabilitation of his public image

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