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The government is in reality subsidizing it.

I will agree with your last statement….Scientific illiteracy is fueling all of the global issues of the world. Climate, health, political corruption.
The International Monetary Fund report on Oil subsidies might be an interesting read for you …not exactly left wing greenies trying to bring down the oligarchs… also the USA is not the whole world, broadening your political perspective will be enlightening. The world is not either a blue state or a red state.
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LDRHAWKE

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The International Monetary Fund report on Oil subsidies might be an interesting read for you …not exactly left wing greenies trying to bring down the oligarchs… also the USA is not the whole world, broadening your political perspective will be enlightening. The world is not either a blue state or a red state.
Please don’t change what I said and misquote me. “The government is in reality subsidizing it.” I said the opposite.

Plus you say nothing..only imply. The typical way left-wingers argue…no facts.

The facts are the Politically drive efforts Rescinds and prohibits the use of funds appropriated by the U.S. to the World Bank and by U.S. government lending agencies for fossil-fuel projects. An increase in the supply of energy is one fundamental requirement for economic advancement in the less developed economies. Notwithstanding widespread assertions to the contrary, unconventional energy — wind and solar power are the central examples — simply is not competitive with fossil energy. Because all such funding is limited by definition, a prohibition on fossil-fuel projects means fewer energy resources for the world’s poor — even apart from the inherent unreliability of renewables — and therefore a condemnation to greater poverty than otherwise would be the case. Is the promotion of poverty a sound basis for policy formulation?

Imposes liability on financial institutions for the “environmental damage” caused by their investments in conventional energy. This is analogous to making a bank that finances the purchase of an automobile liable for an accident caused by the driver of that car. This provision is an obvious attempt to reinstate Operation Chokepoint, the illegal effort (eventually abandoned after strong criticism) by the Obama administration to cut off banking services to such disfavored industries as payday lenders, firearms manufacturers, and the fossil-fuel sector. Is a massive distortion of the capital market a sound basis for policy formulation?
 

Crissa

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I'm sorry, but your links are false. AEI is funded by the fossil fuel industry. They have funded false science and denied climate change. Realclearmarkets is a right-leaning site and that article is straight up reprint from Republican political action.

You're making political statements and not factual ones.

That your numbers never cover:
Paying for the public natural resources that are then extracted.
Paying for the social and economic costs of that extraction.
Paying for the health and economic damages of burning those fossil fuels.
That their competition is paying these taxes in full.

it's dishonest and disgusting. I have sat back and not argued with you, but it has to stop. Posting misinformation websites that actively lie about what they're doing is the worst kind of politics.

-Crissa

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Enterprise_Institute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=RealClear_Media_Group
 

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Please don’t……
This is a wholly remarkable word salad.

What is the cheapest form of electricity… ever? The international energy agency will give you a clue. (https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics)

Post tax global fossil fuel subsidies amount to $4,700,000,000,000……. per year… (https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies)

I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. You either have a very limited understanding of what your are talking about or you are being purposefully malicious.

Fossil fuels can only remain in the market because of subsidies, swift removal the subsidies would crash the whole economic system, however progressively removing fossil fuel from the economy will redistribute wealth more equitably. Poor communities you tried to mention will have more control of their energy resources keeping funds in
areas producing energy, right down to residential rooftop solar.

Solar, wind and storage with electric vehicles will balance the energy system and keep funds in smaller communities making them more self sufficient.

What are the marginal costs of generating 10 GW of energy with fossil fuel vs wind/solar storage? I’ll give you a hint, marginal costs for WSB are inconsequential at that scale.

Renewables are safer, cleaner and cheaper, and don’t require subsidies to be profitable.

What is your motivation for pushing these easily refutable ideas?

My motivation for evidence based decision making is the desire for a more equitable system that values the triple bottom line.

Fossil fuels cannot do this.
 

LDRHAWKE

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Do either of you know why power plant photo used on the web site you referenced is absolute Propaganda?

Tesla Cybertruck Update from Elon: Cybertruck production starting late 2022 and volume production in 2023 195E9527-949F-408C-B126-A504DD8AB497


Can either one you define what a subsidy is to the oil industry and how they put a value on the numbers used as used in these articles?

This is the definition of propaganda.

Who do you think is pocketing the money when California gasoline costs reach $10 a gallon? and it will reach that to even start to pay the States deficit spending. . The oil companies make about $.08 /gal. after tax profit on gasoline. If you think that is high you know nothing about profit. If Apple was making gasoline it would probably cost $100.00 / gal……remember Federal and State tax are a tacked on percentage. Stop picking on the oil guys…we will need them for quite awhile. Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter, and Bill Gates, personally from investing in spike protein injections; all made more profit than individual oil companies this year…….and the oil companies paid taxes on it.?

Do I think CO2 global warming is a political power grabbing scam….without question. It is on the very edge of self destruct by facts. It will die the death of other tax scams. What better way to get a new world order tax passed than convincing people the world is on the edge of death and dying from CO2.

I suggest you both personally should follow your beliefs and stop using your gas powered vehicles and disconnect from the grid to help stop all of this global warming, pollution, and death. Stop buying any goods or services using power. Stand up for what you believe. Show the world that you can put an end to this evil CO2 polluting global warming capitalism. Enough talk comrade do the right thing! If you live on the Left Coast….relax, they will do it for you, if you don’t mind living in a tent...?




PS…Do either of you know commercial green houses often pump in CO2 to increase plant growth rates. Remember those green little things that produce oxygen that we breathe and remove CO2 and store carbon.

PPS…And the power plant picture of all that polluting smoke they are trying to convey as pollution ……virtual all those are cooling towers. That is all 100% clean water vapor. They are clouds.

PPPS…..Do I believe solar derived power and nuclear are inevitable and what we will end up with…..YES! But, Tesla will need to sell 100 million Cybertrucks, just to plug in for grid peak power demand, to make the slightest dent in World power needs. Wind and solar do not supply continuous power and will need a hell of a lot of 4680 backup batteries.
 
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jhogan2424

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I got temporarily banned from posting for defending my political position. Why is it ok for you guys to openly discuss and spar back and forth but it wasn’t ok for me? If the moderators were fair, both of you would be temporarily banned just as I was.
 

Crissa

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I got temporarily banned from posting for defending my political position. Why is it ok for you guys to openly discuss and spar back and forth but it wasn’t ok for me? If the moderators were fair, both of you would be temporarily banned just as I was.
We've all been bopped from time to time.

I think it's about keeping it clean (and when the moderator is paying attention).

It's not always fair. But nor is it fair to post misinformation.

Everyone has biases, it's true, and we should be aware of them. But we should also be aware when someone is intentionally BSing us. And I hold no malice to the guys who've been lied to,

Those guys at AEI get paid pretty highly to lie to others, tho.

-Crissa
 

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It's much more difficult for workers to move than capital.

-Crissa
That may have been true in the past but a company that needs skilled workers will often offer relocation assistance/compensation.
A few years ago on a network weekly news program (can't remember which network or program) there was a story about a factory owner near LA that got tired of being bent over on state and local taxes.
He was offered factory space just across the Arizona state line by local officials that had an industrial park that had excess capacity.
They also offered lower taxes and no city taxes on workers wages, something they were suffering under in California.
The owner accepted their terms and then offered to move any employee at company expense.
In a happy coincidence there also happened to be a large subdivision that had a lot of unsold property in the same town.
The factory owner worked with the local bank to assist employees that moved with him to get mortgages on those homes.
Almost every employee made the move.
This may not be a typical happening but there are companies out there that do not exist to screw the workers and work them like rented mules.
I have seen words to the effect that GigaTexas will need 10,000 workers. Not sure if that includes the separate battery plant or not.
If I were Elon I would be doing some headhunting at the competition and targeting workers that have been displaced by production that has been moved to Mexico.
The last thing the legacy automakers need is a large movement of skilled workers from ICE production to EV production.
 

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Can either one you define what a subsidy is to the oil industry and how they put a value on the numbers used as used in these articles?
That link to the International Monetary Fund should help you.

Now… it appears from your word salad posts it is clear you’re not actually wanting a response or interested broadening your understanding.

In order to have a discussion you need to focus on a singular concept within a topic.
 

rr6013

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I wonder why Tesla has hundreds of cast sections just sitting around...

-Crissa
That ain’t clean fresh off the presses inventory. There is sunk cost in those castings sitting around. Before they can bond those castings dirt, alum oxidization, rust(yes) and mold release need debrided for adherence.
 


LDRHAWKE

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That link to the International Monetary Fund should help you.

Now… it appears from your word salad posts it is clear you’re not actually wanting a response or interested broadening your understanding.

In order to have a discussion you need to focus on a singular concept within a topic.
i will repeat my question. “Can either one you define what a subsidy is to the oil industry and how they put a value on the numbers used as used in these articles?” Telling me to go look for the answer you don’t seem to know…. is not an answer.

I do not even understand what your argument is about? All you say is go read an article. I read it…..$4.7 trillion subsidies is propagpanda….it is a made up number. They say subsidies is the cost of Government services to the oil industry. Utter absolute BS.

I have clearly said numerous times Tesla EV batteries have proven to change the game in favor of solar energy. Until a way of cost effectively storing the energy in large enough storage systems, solar and EV was not much more that a novelty. Tesla….Musk, has changed the energy game. It doesn’t need political distortions to justify It’s succeeding. How do you recognize the difference……one of them wants to tax and take your money, and the other allows you to decide what you want to spend it on.

Seeing that we are all on the Cybertruck site and have preorders….I think most of are on the same side.
 
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That ain’t clean fresh off the presses inventory. There is sunk cost in those castings sitting around. Before they can bond those castings dirt, alum oxidization, rust(yes) and mold release need debrided for adherence.
I’d hazard a guess they are preproduction castings that will likely be scrapped and reformed when casting is validated.
 
 




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