What if I don't want the foundation series?

[cvalue13]

Till I see no fires in round two of trucks I will sideline Ford.

have to pipe up on this one

the notion of any BEVs being a particular fire hazard is a good bit FUD-borne. they’re no more prone to fire than are ICE vehicles, which are filled with flammable liquid.

in April, GM recalled 40,000 consumer ICE trucks for a brake fluid line defect that could result in fire. In Sept Kia/Honda recalled 3.3M consumer vehicles for a fire risk defect. Etc. Etc.

Meanwhile, Ford had a single truck defect on a factory holding lot, and shut down all production to review the issue before finding comfort of the rarity of the issue, which resulted in no recall.

Then I won’t get into available data delta between Ford and Tesla BEVs, because it would just be more mostly irrelevant FUD

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[Outdoors]

have to pipe up on this one

the notion of any BEVs being a particular fire hazard is a good bit FUD-borne. they’re no more prone to fire than are ICE vehicles, which are filled with flammable liquid.

in April, GM recalled 40,000 consumer ICE trucks for a brake fluid line defect that could result in fire. In Sept Kia/Honda recalled 3.3M consumer vehicles for a fire risk defect. Etc. Etc.

Meanwhile, Ford had a single truck defect on a factory holding lot, and shut down all production to review the issue before finding comfort of the rarity of the issue, which resulted in no recall.

Then I won’t get into available data delta between Ford and Tesla BEVs, because it would just be more mostly irrelevant FUD

I wasn't talking about ice trucks. I'm talking about Ford lightning trucks sitting in lots catching on fire. On another forum in another place far away in time, approximately right when Ford launched. I said I wouldn't want to be the owner of a first battery electric vehicle truck or non-truck.

2nd iteration sure. But I don't want to be tried out by a new company with batteries that they're doing for the first time. Yes you read that right? I'm not trying out the truck. They're trying out their new technology on me and so far for Ford it hasn't gone that great. They don't know anything about making battery cells. They have to rely on others. So in my mind I'm going to wait till they get all those kinks figured out

 

[cvalue13]

I wasn't talking about ice trucks. I'm talking about Ford lightning trucks sitting in lots catching on fire. On another forum in another place far away in time, approximately right when Ford launched. I said I wouldn't want to be the owner of a first battery electric vehicle truck or non-truck.

2nd iteration sure. But I don't want to be tried out by a new company with batteries that they're doing for the first time. Yes you read that right? I'm not trying out the truck. They're trying out their new technology on me and so far for Ford it hasn't gone that great. They don't know anything about making battery cells. They have to rely on others. So in my mind I'm going to wait till they get all those kinks figured out

no, you weren’t talking about ICE trucks.

my point was that you should be.

because the point was that to say you wouldn’t buy a Lightning because of that single, isolated fire, while (I assume) you haven’t sold every ICE vehicle you own - which are a far larger fire hazard - seems inconsistent.

meanwhile, that it’s also inconsistent and un-substantiated to think that Ford Lightning’s are any more prone to battery fires than Tesla/Cybertrucks.

ultimately, neither Lightnings nor Cybertrucks are remotely as fire-prone as any ICE vehicle or currently own.

so while you weren’t talking about ICE trucks, you should’ve been, was the point

 

[Outdoors]

no, you weren’t talking about ICE trucks.

my point was that you should be.

because the point was that to say you wouldn’t buy a Lightning because of that single, isolated fire, while (I assume) you haven’t sold every ICE vehicle you own - which are a far larger fire hazard - seems inconsistent.

meanwhile, that it’s also inconsistent and un-substantiated to think that Ford Lightning’s are any more prone to battery fires than Tesla/Cybertrucks.

ultimately, neither Lightnings nor Cybertrucks are remotely as fire-prone as any ICE vehicle or currently own.

so while you weren’t talking about ICE trucks, you should’ve been, was the point

Like I said again, I will not be used as a guinea pig by some other company figuring out batteries for the first time in their creation. My last ice car was bought in 2012. And it sits out in Montana outside of a garage.

And yes, I worry about fires with that one as well.

The engineers at GM and Ford are yesterday's dinosaurs. I am very good friends with one of them that signs off on a two parts that are made on every car in North America and they are so backwards. Laughed at Elon and his giga casting. Another laughed at his 48 volts and said why?

I don't do business is that are stuck in the past just because that's always the way it's done. Unfortunately with those two automakers that I mentioned that happens to be the case.

 

[cvalue13]

I don't do business is that are stuck in the past just because that's always the way it's done. Unfortunately with those two automakers that I mentioned that happens to be the case.

that’s one view and your opinion that you’re entitled to. No worries

just be aware there are other views and opinions that square better with available reality

fact is, while all companies - including Tesla - are subject to a wide range of fair critiques about their various failings and inefficiencies, whit it comes to focusing in on existing uS automakers as relates to the allegations of being ‘dinosaurs’ that view in no small part conflates and misunderstands at least two large dynamics at play:

(1) the very real and critical differences between a relatively massive manufacturing business that Operates under a global mandate and operational footprint.

AND

(2) that eg Ford’s business and engineering approaches (especially when it comes to trucks) hasn’t been “stale” by some ineptitude or accident, but because it’s exactly the strategy that comported to their customer’s needs and wishes - eg, you don’t change how you build trucks, or the basic engineering of your engines, on a product for which a central value proposition is that Joe farmer be able to work on them and find cheap and the duly available parts out in the field or in their barn.

To suggest that in all ways eg Ford is a ‘dinosaur’ for doing things the same way is to betray a basic misunderstanding of an intentional and justifiable business model.

And to suggest that a massive, global footprint, manufacturing and distribution business isn’t as agile as a ~start up is to grumble about the sky being blue.


Like I said, not at all to suggest here aren’t a universe of still remaining and valid complaints or observations about why someone may ultimately feel eg Ford isn’t as good a company as Tesla.

But instead that when someone paints with the “dinosaur” brush it puts me of mind that I can’t be sure if they’re describing one of those valid observations, or instead just repeating some armchair quip that does more to betray their lack of familiarity with the subject than anything.


As for your two friends: Find me any large and complex company for which people can’t tell you a million ways that it’s internally an absolute shit-show, and I’ll show you someone who’s not paying attention.

Because trust me, if you are under the miss-impression that Tesla is some finely-tuned, well-oiled, machine … you are WILDLY mistaken.

WILDLY.

The credit that Tesla deserves isn’t that it’s shit-show free. It’s that it manages to do what it does DESPITE the shit show.

But ultimately, you’re calling the game before the 2nd inning has begun. When and if Tesla has fully matured, expanded into another 400 global markets, expanded into not just consumer but also industrial and government applications, and in its corporate lifespan reached it’s saturation point - THEN the time will be ripe for apples-to-apples comparisons.

Until then, one exclaiming that traditional OEMs are nothing but discombobulated ‘dinosaurs’ while Tesla is some well-oiled highly-evolved super-species, is ironically a lot like people who think dinosaurs are somehow inherently inferior to humans.

Humans have been on the planet 6 million years.

Dinosaurs ruled for 160 million years.

Only time will tell.

 

[Outdoors]

that’s one view and your opinion that you’re entitled to. No worries

just be aware there are other views and opinions that square better with available reality

fact is, while all companies - including Tesla - are subject to a wide range of fair critiques about their various failings and inefficiencies, whit it comes to focusing in on existing uS automakers as relates to the allegations of being ‘dinosaurs’ that view in no small part conflates and misunderstands at least two large dynamics at play:

(1) the very real and critical differences between a relatively massive manufacturing business that Operates under a global mandate and operational footprint.

AND

(2) that eg Ford’s business and engineering approaches (especially when it comes to trucks) hasn’t been “stale” by some ineptitude or accident, but because it’s exactly the strategy that comported to their customer’s needs and wishes - eg, you don’t change how you build trucks, or the basic engineering of your engines, on a product for which a central value proposition is that Joe farmer be able to work on them and find cheap and the duly available parts out in the field or in their barn.

To suggest that in all ways eg Ford is a ‘dinosaur’ for doing things the same way is to betray a basic misunderstanding of an intentional and justifiable business model.

And to suggest that a massive, global footprint, manufacturing and distribution business isn’t as agile as a ~start up is to grumble about the sky being blue.


Like I said, not at all to suggest here aren’t a universe of still remaining and valid complaints or observations about why someone may ultimately feel eg Ford isn’t as good a company as Tesla.

But instead that when someone paints with the “dinosaur” brush it puts me of mind that I can’t be sure if they’re describing one of those valid observations, or instead just repeating some armchair quip that does more to betray their lack of familiarity with the subject than anything.


As for your two friends: Find me any large and complex company for which people can’t tell you a million ways that it’s internally an absolute shit-show, and I’ll show you someone who’s not paying attention.

Because trust me, if you are under the miss-impression that Tesla is some finely-tuned, well-oiled, machine … you are WILDLY mistaken.

WILDLY.

The credit that Tesla deserves isn’t that it’s shit-show free. It’s that it manages to do what it does DESPITE the shit show.

But ultimately, you’re calling the game before the 2nd inning has begun. When and if Tesla has fully matured, expanded into another 400 global markets, expanded into not just consumer but also industrial and government applications, and in its corporate lifespan reached it’s saturation point - THEN the time will be ripe for apples-to-apples comparisons.

Until then, one exclaiming that traditional OEMs are nothing but discombobulated ‘dinosaurs’ while Tesla is some well-oiled highly-evolved super-species, is ironically a lot like people who think dinosaurs are somehow inherently inferior to humans.

Humans have been on the planet 6 million years.

Dinosaurs ruled for 160 million years.

Only time will tell.

Nice AI response. I asked similar questions after I posted. Got some similar phrases used.

 

[cvalue13]

Nice AI response. I asked similar questions after I posted. Got some similar phrases used.

ask me 1+1 and you’ll get the same answer ChatGPT/Bard give you

I mean, when it’s right it’s right?


you have great contributions here and I enjoy the perspectives you bring.

we can disagree and press on one-another’s beliefs without resorting to “I know you are but what am I” playground responses

 

[ulsh.george]

Same situation here. I don't want to drop an extra $20k and lose the tax credit, but if it's gonna be another year before they send out standard series invites, I might. I don't know who to reach out to. Local show room?

Local showroom said to just ignore the email.

 

[JeffnReno]

I finally got the invite to configure a Foundation Series but with $20k added to a duel motor making it still over $100k out the door and no tax benefit, I'm passing for now.

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