"Wolverine Cybertruck"

Crissa

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You can’t really compare CT’s with the model 3 and Y as they are sharing market whilst CT’s ain’t.
Why can't I compare 3 to Cybertruck and Y to the next Cybertruck, Wolverine?

They're both a new model and the following descendant model. Seems pretty apt comparison. Tho I can't see it taking three years to get from Cybertruck to Wolverine like it did 3 to Y, unless something goes wrong with the Cybertruck fundamentally.

-Crissa





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Oobbeeddoo

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Why can't I compare 3 to Cybertruck and Y to the next Cybertruck, Wolverine?

They're both a new model and the following descendant model. Seems pretty apt comparison. Tho I can't see it taking three years to get from Cybertruck to Wolverine like it did 3 to Y, unless something goes wrong with the Cybertruck fundamentally.

-Crissa
It's the law!, No wait.....
 

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Here I thought the Wolverine name was a bash against Nikola and their Badger pickup truck... (what is tougher than a badger? a wolverine)
 

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Tell me if I am wrong: the CT will have about the same dimensions as a Ford Raptor. There are several Raptors driving around where I live. You can drive a hummer H1 around if you want to. We even have lorries on our roads ;)
There are other reasons why the CT will not meet EU-standards. A just smaller version with most of the parts of the bigger CT won´t do the trick. Sharp edges (pedestrian safety) and deformability (crashtest) are the problematic issues. I hope a commercial-truck-vehicle-licence and some plastics can solve the problem. The 3500kg limit for vehicles driven with a standard-driving-licence was extended to 4250kg for BEVs which are commercially used. No problem on this issue either.
 
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Geo

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Tell me if I am wrong: the CT will have about the same dimensions as a Ford Raptor. There are several Raptors driving around where I live. You can drive a hummer H1 around if you want to. We even have lorries on our roads ;)
There are other reasons why the CT will not meet EU-standards. A just smaller version with most of the parts of the bigger CT won´t do the trick. Sharp edges (pedestrian safety) and deformability (crashtest) are the problematic issues. I hope a commercial-truck-vehicle-licence and some plastics can solve the problem. The 3500kg limit for vehicles driven with a standard-driving-licence was extended to 4250kg for BEVs which are commercially used. No problem on this issue either.

Your are not wrong Paul, you are right.

The size of the Cybertruck is not why it won’t pass the EU regs.

As you say there are trucks at least the size of the CT there, that are homologated for the general market and also ones that are imported under different uncommon peripheral schemes.

And I agree with you, a simply scaled down version will not pass the EU regs if as Elon has confirmed “its impossible for the Cybertruck to pass the EU regs.

So yes, the Smaller World Market Wolverine Cybertruck will address two objectives:

A/ Its believed that the EU and other world markets clearly prefer a smaller size.
(Approx. 2ft shorter, and a few inch’s narrower)

B/ It will be different in certain aspects to meet EU regs. What that means exactly in relation to its
looks is unknown publicly for sure at this point.

As for the weight, the tri motor is likely to weigh approx. 2600 kg - 2954 kg unladen. Which means approx. 4545 kg GVM.

The letter Tesla sent to the California regulator asking for a classification confirmed the Original Cybertruck will be between 8500 lbs - 10,000 lbs GVM. (3863 kg - 4545 kg)

The Wolverine Cybertruck is expected to be less given it will be approx. 2ft shorter and a little narrow.
 
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PLC

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As for the weight, the tri motor is likely to weigh approx. 2600 kg - 2954 kg unladen. Which means approx. 4545 kg GVM.

The letter Tesla sent to the California regulator asking for a classification confirmed the Original Cybertruck will be between 8500 lbs - 10,000 lbs GVM. (3863 kg - 4545 kg)
There are a lots of commercial vehicles in Europe which are made for up to 7500kg GVM but are typed down to 3500kg GVM to avoid the need of a lorry-drivers-licence, lorry-highwayfees, lorry-speedlimits and driving time recording. A 4250kg typed CT with 2750kg tara would offer 1500kg payload, which would be 200-300kg more than a gasoline MB Sprinter. No problem on this issue. Tesla would have to think a little bit out of the box to provide the CT to Europe. Of course they would like to present it - like in the US - as an alternative to private driven SUVs or offroad-vehicles. Quite impossible in terms of pedestrian-safety, crashtest characteristics and weigth. But sure possible, if they adapt to a commercial-vehicle-workaround. Lots of others who want to sell edgy stuff (Wrangler) have chosen this path. I bet, by far the most potential CT-drivers in the EU would accept some issues within such a workaround. I also bet, most of them want a full-scale CT with the original "design" (not to be confused with "looks") and not a frankenstein-wolverine-CT with an expensive, thin, soft and painted body.
 
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Crissa

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The Cybertruck will have crumple zones.

Why do people think it won't? Just because a panel won't bend at a certain lower threshold doesn't mean it won't have a crumple zone.

They used the same materials on the feet of the Starship prototypes, which didn't have shocks, they crumpled to absorb the landing shock.

-Crissa

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-sn5-second-hop-plans/

(There's a closeup of the feet that also shows their crumple)
 
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There are a lots of commercial vehicles in Europe which are made for up to 7500kg GVM but are typed down to 3500kg GVM to avoid the need of a lorry-drivers-licence, lorry-highwayfees, lorry-speedlimits and driving time recording ( WOW !!) . . . . . . . . .

Lots of others who want to sell edgy stuff (Wrangler) have chosen this path.
Paul, I think you may want to meet up with others on the forum ;)

Who have difficulty accepting Elon's declaration that" its impossible" for the Original Cybertruck to meet EU regs and the alternative solution Tesla have, which is the World Market Wolverine Cybertruck.

From Previous post " Will the Cybertruck be allowed to drive in Europe"

Someone help Crissa take Elon hostage and demand to know exactly why "its impossible" for the Cybertruck to pass the Euro regulations, (and associated markets) and Phuken either make him do his homework again . . . . . or put a gun to Elon's head, to put a gun to the Euro regulators head, and write a ransom note threatening, that if they don't allow the Original Cybertruck to be homologated for sale in the general market there, ( a little verbose I know, you use your own words),
he will aim the next Falcon 9 Heavy launch into the Euro Presidents chocolate starfish.

To get Elon to man up, to stop working on the Wolverine Cybertruck, cos Crissa doesn't want any alternative Cybertruck to be sold to anyone who even may prefer it, to the Original one.

"Impossible" is a state of mind, and Elon should know that better than anyone.



Note :
I don't know where your concern about the Wolverine Cybertruck not being an exoskeleton comes from, cos the Exoskeleton is intrinsic to the existence of the Cybertruck, it cant be a Cybertruck without it.

And as its expressly being made to comply with EU reg's, so it most certainly will :)
 
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PLC

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The Cybertruck will have crumple zones.

Why do people think it won't? Just because a panel won't bend at a certain lower threshold doesn't mean it won't have a crumple zone.

They used the same materials on the feet of the Starship prototypes, which didn't have shocks, they crumpled to absorb the landing shock.

-Crissa

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-sn5-second-hop-plans/

(There's a closeup of the feet that also shows their crumple)
I don´t think, that the CT won´t have crumple zones. I just think, that those crumple zones won´t meet the EU regs for passenger cars. Especially because the quite sharp and stiff edges in the front won't spend pedestrians enough comfort while beeing hit by a CT. For example: We are not allowed to mount grill-guards because of pedestrian safety anymore. The size of the CT is definitely NOT the problem.
 

Crissa

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The size of the CT is definitely NOT the problem.
The size dictates where those impact the test dummy. But the hood of the Cybertruck is actually lower than other trucks.

I won't speculate how well it would do, but saying it flatly can never pass seems to be contradicted by the recent Jeep that was rated in the EU. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/jeep/wrangler/34192

If that can pass, so can the Cybertruck.

-Crissa
 

PLC

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Paul, I think you may want to meet up with others on the forum ;)

Who have difficulty accepting Elon's declaration that" its impossible" for the Original Cybertruck to meet EU regs and the alternative solution Tesla have, which is the World Market Wolverine Cybertruck.

From Previous post " Will the Cybertruck be allowed to drive in Europe"

Note :
I don't know where your concern about the Wolverine Cybertruck not being an exoskeleton comes from, cos the Exoskeleton is intrinsic to the existence of the Cybertruck, its cant be a Cybertruck without it.

And as its expressly being made to comply with EU reg's, so it most certainly will :)
Let's work that out from the logical side: The size of the CT is not the problem, the weight of the CT is not the problem, remains the (spotty) stiffness of the used panels as the problem. And this stiffness is a direct result of the material they have chosen. If you want to use stainless steel, you have to deal with the fact, that you don't have a material-option at hand that offers the deep-drawability of those types of steel which are used to built up car panels as we know them. The whole design is a consequence of this fact. They did not use 3mm sheets because they wanted to build a bulletproof truck, they used them because they had no other, affordable option to form a quite stiff panel out of stainless steel. Thats why they are bound to edging to mould the shape around narrower angles. And those edges are quite sharp and quite stiff.
And please don't buy the marketing-gag of the ultraunique "exosceleton". Every standard-passenger-car is build that way. It is just unique to serious trucks to not use a ladder-frame. The thickness of the material in the exosceleton has nothing to do with that. If you want to meet EU-regs with the wolverine-CT because the full-size CT really can't meet them, you have to change the edginess, because of that the thickness of the sheets and because of that the stainless steel to traditional, painted steel or way more expensive options. And that would tear the ingenuity of the whole concept apart.
And as I said above: it is "impossible" for Elon to deliver a CT which meets the EU specs for passenger cars. It is definitely not technically impossible to meet those specs as a commercial vehicle. If it is just Elons mindset which forbids the commercial vehicle workaround, he should not have taken preorders and deposites in those areas. But I think this option still will be an option. They just don't want to start a discussion about pedestrian-unsavety and workarounds for private use of ultraheavy BEVs in europe. The Greens, the Lefties, the Conservatives and the Rights would love to profile themselves as environmentally friendly and die-hard social by forbidding something like the CT. The sealing off of markets by standards and making things impossible, is the ultimate core competence in Europe. Let sleeping dogs lie.
 
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PLC

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The size dictates where those impact the test dummy. But the hood of the Cybertruck is actually lower than other trucks.

I won't speculate how well it would do, but saying it flatly can never pass seems to be contradicted by the recent Jeep that was rated in the EU. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/jeep/wrangler/34192

If that can pass, so can the Cybertruck.

-Crissa
As I said above: even the Wrangler can just pass as a commercial verhicle in europe. Too edgy, too much uncomfort for pedestrians who got hit. The CT may even need additional plastic-bumpers to achive the coziness of a Wrangler-hood ;)
Btw: the lower the edge the worse. A low edge throws the pedastrian onto the hood like a whip. The edge has to deform when hitting the pedastrian and the hood has to take out the energy of the moving mass instead of reflecting it. Those two EU-regs are quite hard to meet with the CT-concept.
 

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