What Wall Charger to Buy???

[SwampNut]

You're continuing to argue for your error, which is funny.

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[Crissa]

Crazy. Even after clearing my ignore list I can't read the posts.

That's not good mechanics.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

You're not missing anything.

 

[Ogre]

You're not missing anything.

It is concerning that the forums seem to be sick. I took @ajdelange off my ignore list months ago but I’m not seeing their posts either. There are some other weird issues on other threads for me too.

 

[Ogre]

Looks like @Administrator fixed the missing content issue.

Thank you.

 

[Bill906]

Ohhhh. I see!

Yes, I guess it's all the trolling that has earned me 3275 likes on 3073 posts. Maybe you, too, could learn something.

The reason I pointed out you were trolling is @SwampNut stated 120VAC charger could not supply 4-6kW needed by the HVAC. He was 100% correct. There was nothing wrong with that statement. It was completely true and we all understood what he meant.

Then you changed the topic from power to energy and mansplained to us how energy works.

If your preconditioning draws 5kW, and you are only supplying 1800kW from the charger. The HVAC will be taking some power (and energy) from the battery. When you get in the car, the battery will have less energy than if you didn't preconditon. I believe that is the point @SwampNut was trying to make.

What is it you are not understanding.

As for the likes that you've "earned". You post a lot. But your Likes to posts ratio is 1.06. Seems more of a quantity score than a quality score.

 

[ajdelange]

If your preconditioning draws 5kW, and you are only supplying 1800kW from the charger. The HVAC will be taking some power (and energy) from the battery. When you get in the car, the battery will have less energy than if you didn't preconditon. I believe that is the point @SwampNut was trying to make.

Perhaps but he is obscuring the essential concept of a battery buffered system in emphasizing this. The essence of a battery buffered system is that the charger only need supply power at a rate equal to the average load demand. Thus a 1440 W charger is able to power a car that may draw over 100 kW at times. If you have a 1440 W charger you can supply any combination of loads that average 1440W or less (ignoring losses here for simplicity). Thus if the A/C is a 6 kW load with a 20% duty cycle the charger is more than adequate to supply it (once the pipeline has been at least partially filled). It supplies all the power (or, if you prefer to think in terms of energy, energy) required to run the A/C.

I don't expect this to be understood but I think it is really all I'm going to have to say on the subject. The people just wanted to know which charger they should buy to be ready for the CT.

 

[SwampNut]

I don't expect this to be understood

Everyone other than you seems to understand it.

 

[ajdelange]

Everyone other than you seems to understand it.

Certainly there are some who do but not, apparently, the people making all the noise. Over the years I've figured out who the smart people in the class are.

 

[SwampNut]

The ones not continually defending their own errors?

 

[Ogre]

I think I see what this argument is about.

@SwampNut thinks air conditioning draws down power faster than the mobile adaptor can provide when plugged into 120v/ 12a.

@ajdelange agrees but feels like @SwampNut didn’t use enough big words or math to state his point.

Since SwampNut’s original post got his point across just fine, I gotta give the point to the sunken Jeep guy here.

 

[SwampNut]

And the trolling has been fun, you gotta admit.

You're right, my math was too small.


120v*12a=1440w

 

[HaulingAss]

If your preconditioning draws 5kW, and you are only supplying 1800kW from the charger. The HVAC will be taking some power (and energy) from the battery. When you get in the car, the battery will have less energy than if you didn't preconditon. I believe that is the point @SwampNut was trying to make.

Exactly! And it's a very valid point for three reasons:

1) If an EV driver only has wimpy 120V /15 amp charging circuit he/she may find they don't spend enough hours at home to replace the energy used when out and about. It is not even necessary to drive big miles to have this problem when not spending many hours at home. At that point such a user will be loathe to draw the battery down further by pre-conditioning the car because they are already finding it impossible to keep the car from gradually becoming more discharged each day.

2) In winter weather it's even a bigger problem because the battery will not begin charging until it reaches a certain temperature and it uses shore power to prepare the battery for charging. Using 120V power I've seen it take up to around two hours to even add the first mile of range while 240V 48 amp power will allow the car to start charging immediately upon plugging in as it warms the battery and eventually reach full charging speed.

3) Another very real reason you want a real 240V charging circuit is it reduces battery cycling. Remember, the wear and tear on your battery is directly proportional to how much energy it supplies. It's utterly stupid and wasteful to draw the battery down to precondition the cabin or the battery for charging while the car is parked 20 feet from grid power. Install a real charging circuit so that's not necessary! Your battery will thank you for going easy on it.

 

[Crissa]

A battery isn't considered cycled until it goes below 50.

And as pointed out, even at 350Wh/mi that's over 11k miles per plugged in 8 hours a day. That's more than enough for the average driver, even with some battery heating or cooling from the wall.

Cars on average spend 95% of the time parked. The median commute is 41 miles. Stay plugged in twelve hours out of the day on average and you have over 3k of extra miles charged per year, assuming no days off.

Don't underestimate the lowly Level 1 charge point.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

My car has been parked for five solid days, plenty for 120v charging. Using only off-peak times, that would be around 140kWH. I've only left the house on eBikes and in someone else's car.

Today I have to drive a lot, and will come home fairly low. First thing tomorrow, I will do even more driving, to the point of planning a 100% charge tonight. 120v charging, off peak, would give me at most 15kWH, far from enough. If I start charging on peak, I'd get at most 25k. 240v 30a off-peak charging will give me over 60k. Our on-peak rate is nearly double the off peak.

Real world numbers from real usage, YMMV.

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