Lightning gets new LFP Batteries starting next year (2024)

[Prime8]

Not sure about the LFP part but if you have sentry on that sounds reasonable. Disabled mine due to lack of concern and the fact I typically lost about 5% overnight on 3LR. Uses about 230-300 wh when on.

Thanks, makes sense, I don't think she had sentry mode on her last car as there was no storage.

Sponsored

 

[Don Kedick]

Thanks, makes sense, I don't think she had sentry mode on her last car as there was no storage.

I never had a drive connected to my car. Not sure on the storage limitations but you can absolutely use sentry without a storage device. The car can save at least some clips.

 

[Crissa]

Anybody know? Do the LFP batteries lose charge quicker when idle? My GF's brand new model 3 lost 15% just sitting over 2 days in 50-70 degree weather. Her previous M3 didn't lose anything close to that...

Not that I know of? That's prime storage temp. Do they have lots of Sentry Mode action?

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

Don't LFP batteries work better for V2H. Maybe that is a selling point for Ford. Lots of people on here talk about how the Cybertruck has to have a frunk comparable to the Lightning (not me). But, having the ability to back up your home energy is HUGE. I think Tesla will have dropped the ball if the Cybertruck doesn't have that capability!

The need or advantage of back power to the home is not the main issue.
The main difference is how it is implemented.

Tesla's approach will likely be that at least one Tesla PowerWall will be needed and the PowerWall handles all of the grid/solar/vehicle power blending.
So stationary battery is there so when truck is gone any household members left at home and semi-critical appliances like refrigerator still have power.
Because Tesla designs and makes most of critical components they work together more smoothly.

Ford Lightning approach is using Ford Intelligent Backup Power charger and several 3rd party products.
No stationary battery required at the home but then when truck is gone any household members left at home and semi-critical appliances like refrigerator have no power.
Because Ford does not design and make most of critical components (bidi inverter, backup panel, micro interconnection device with dark start battery, auto transfer switch, ... ) they have more difficulty.

-----------------------------------

UPDATED: Our Ford F150 Lightning Is Great: Our Backup System? Not So Much.
Feb 10, 2023
Transport Evolved

--------



-----------------------------------

Ford F-150 Lightning Charger and Home Integration System Installation Review
solargoat 9.06K subscribers 1,775 views Dec 14, 2022 This video was made to be a guide for the installation of the Ford F-150 Lighting Home Integration kit. This kit was designed by Ford and Sunrun to utilize the battery in the F-150 Lightning to suply power to the home during the outage.


-----------------------------------

Ford F-150 Lightning Intelligent Backup Power: Everything You Need To Know
Jan 29, 2022
State Of Charge

9:34 Is Ford Charge Station Pro a DC fast charger?
12:23 Can you charge a Tesla vehicle with Ford Charge Station Pro?
14:52 Can your solar array power your house with Ford Charge Station Pro on?
16:42 Can your solar array charge the Ford F-150 Lightning while Intelligent Backup Power is running?
17:29 What equipment do you need to use Ford Intelligent Backup Power?
19:10 Are you required to use Sunrun to install Ford Intelligent Backup Power?
20:40 Is there any version of the F-150 Lightning that cannot use Ford Intelligent Backup Power?
24:00 Will using Ford Intelligent Backup Power frequently affect my battery warranty?
26:30 Will Ford Intelligent Backup Power turn on automatically?

--------




-----------------------------------

 

[SolarWizard]

Losing payload capacity is a real significant problem with Ford F-150 Lightning EV because weight wise it is very inefficient and is already deficient in payload capacity (max 1,800lbs for 320mi Extended-Range pack)

If final Cybertruck total gross weight meets their original goals and payload capacity is 3,500lbs, then Tesla in the future could do a 280mi Cybertruck with 1,000lbs of heavier CATL LFP 4680 cells and only lose 1,000lbs of payload capacity (2,500 max) & still beat Ford nickel celled Lightning and many ICE Ford F-150s.

There are nearly zero half tons outside obscure V6 regular cabs with > 1800lbs of payload in the world. 1800lbs is an outstanding rating and there aren’t many things that fit in a 5.5 ft bed that will push that beyond aggregates and anyone with a brain is opting for a dump trailer to do that more than once

 

[Sirfun]

There are nearly zero half tons outside obscure V6 regular cabs with > 1800lbs of payload in the world. 1800lbs is an outstanding rating and there aren’t many things that fit in a 5.5 ft bed that will push that beyond aggregates and anyone with a brain is opting for a dump trailer to do that more than once

Just remember, bodies and all their stuff are payload capacity. You put a crew in a crew cab truck with 1800lbs payload, you could now have less than 1000lbs to put in the bed. Or add a trailer. Hmmmm

 

[fhteagle]

You can't charge any lithium ion batteries below their freezing point.

Not quite correct. LTO can be charged at a decent C rate below 0C (don't recall off the top of my head exactly what it is, maybe 1C even). Most NMC chemistries can be charged at a low C rate below 0.

 

[BillyGee]

Cool.

I feel like this isn't going to solve their biggest problem though, which is charging infrastructure.

 

[Crissa]

Not quite correct. LTO can be charged at a decent C rate below 0C (don't recall off the top of my head exactly what it is, maybe 1C even). Most NMC chemistries can be charged at a low C rate below 0.

Yes, those batteries have a lower freezing point. Water has a different freezing point for difference pressures and salinities, and all liquids have differing points. Water's freezing point isn't the only freezing point!

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

Because Ford does not design and make most of critical components (bidi inverter, backup panel, micro interconnection device with dark start battery, auto transfer switch, ... ) they have more difficulty.

there are a few platform agnostic V2H offerings coming to market soon, and I’m hoping they turn out well.

The Ford Home Integration System is an extremely niche product with and absolutely horrible “preferred” installer in SunRun. After a month of attempting to reason with SunRun, I gave up and swore off the HIS on principle. No appetite for finding third party HIS installer, either, as by then the other platform agnostic offerings were being previewed.

As for Tesla, the CT’s offerings for V2H will be interesting to see play out. I believe EM has taken the position that the PowerWall is their product for this issue. From a self-competition/segmentation perspective, makes some corporate sense. Less sense from the perspective of Tesla seeking to do whatever helps electrify the world.

Your idea that if Tesla offers it at all it will require purchase of a PowerWall is an interesting baby-splitting. Wiuls also be a bit frustrating, since it’s obvious V2H systems don’t need that sort of battery to work.

 

[Ogre]

I think Ford is trying to double down on their short range utility vehicle here. They aren’t shooting for a truck that drives long distances, but one that gets a contractor to a site in town and get stuff done. It’s a pretty sizable market. The advantage here is LFP can charge to 100% every night so LFP vehicles get to use their whole cell every night.

So long as you are within 30-50 miles of home, that means getting to the site, working all day with the truck as power source, then heading home and charging overnight.

Hopefully Ford invests a bit in temperature and battery management before they do this.

 

[cvalue13]

Just remember, bodies and all their stuff are payload capacity. You put a crew in a crew cab truck with 1800lbs payload, you could now have less than 1000lbs to put in the bed. Or add a trailer. Hmmmm

Why’s that?

With a 1000lb of payload left the tongue weight of significant trailers is still available. As much trailer as I’d want to pull with any regularity for any distance in any 1/2 ton truck.

 

[firsttruck]

I think Ford is trying to double down on their short range utility vehicle here. They aren’t shooting for a truck that drives long distances, but one that gets a contractor to a site in town and get stuff done. It’s a pretty sizable market. The advantage here is LFP can charge to 100% every night so LFP vehicles get to use their whole cell every night.

So long as you are within 30-50 miles of home, that means getting to the site, working all day with the truck as power source, then heading home and charging overnight.

Hopefully Ford invests a bit in temperature and battery management before they do this.

In very cold climates some ICE vehicle owners put air barriers in grille or front of grille to block air flow and get engine to operating temp faster, in cold climates, EV owners and contravtors (vehicle sit of hours at jobsite) will be buying insulating blanket wraps for under the vehicle to help keep battery pack warm.

 

[Ogre]

In very cold climates some ICE vehicle owners put air barriers in grille or front of grille to block air flow and get engine to operating temp faster, in cold climates, EV owners and contravtors (vehicle sit of hours at jobsite) will be buying insulating blanket wraps for under the vehicle to help keep battery pack warm.

Fortunately, I don’t live where this is a big issue. Though this year we’ve gotten more than typical freezes. Lost an irrigation pipe I still gotta fix.

Temperature management on the vehicle should help with this. Also, preconditioning. Once the truck battery is up to temp, it should hold temp for quite a while. It’s essentially a giant heat battery.

Sponsored