BREAKING: Electrify America to adopt Tesla NACS connector by 2025

[Crissa]

for me.. it will be going to the same extreme.. again i am very self centered... for NON-Tesla owners.. it means that the existing ccs charging stations have a chance of surviving and there is a good chance that cars with small ranges and low charging rates may have a place to charge in the future...

but honestly for those with l3 capability why would any of them stop at an l2 charger if they had an option.

...because why stop at a level 3 if a level 2 or v2g point is already at your destination? No added stops is optimal.

Running back to move your vehicle is going to get annoying ^-^ And level 2 (or 'urban' DC charging) is more compatible with smaller battery packs. And situations with less idle charges.

so in short in the next 10-15 years there won't be millions of dollars of investment into charging there will be BILLIONS .. tesla can't possibly rule that market and honestly they don't want to.

This is such an important point.

-Crissa

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[CyberGus]

Can dumbies ruin a good plan? Of course.

You know the old saying, "If it ain't broke yet, let me try".

 

[CyberGus]

...give people fish now that they have shown em HOW to fish.

You know the old saying, "Give a man fish and he eats for day, but teach a man to fish and he drinks beer all day in a boat"

 

[HaulingAss]

That is not at all even a tiny bit correct if you are talking about DC fast chargers above 120kw. When you set that very minimal criteria, the Tesla network is larger that all the other networks combined.

What, specifically, is not correct?

 

[Diehard]

Can some one explain to a technically challenged man how sharing or setting up a standard for what a plug looks like is going to help having a cohesive and functional network that is not a monopoly? My understanding is that EA and EV go can now make something that plugs into a NACS EV but a 25 or 26 Ford will depend on a Ford pass App and subscription to plug and charge only at locations for which the provider company has an agreement with Ford. I am not sure how CT will be using a non-Tesla charger. If Ford has a problem with EVgo and exclude them from their app, the user will have to use their individual account with EVgo. Is there any ongoing effort in creating a real standard for what happens behind the plug? Having an umbrella network that each provider talks to and may be a national App and account that is company agnostic or this is too much to ask? A standard plug seems so trivial if what is behind it is still a mess.

 

[cvalue13]

ALL i care about is level 3/4 chargers

reflecting on this

you don't care about destination chargers?

it's funny, because i care less about superchargers/L3 than availability of destination chargers at places like hotels, resorts, clubs, etc.

 

[HaulingAss]

Its not too late and it is absolutely paramount to consumer protection that lots of companies gain a bigger relative market share. Monopolies serve the average consumer extremely poorly in nearly every example

I don't think reality reflects your dogma:

For the last decade, there were multiple CCS fast DC charger network operators, all in competition with one another, often in very close proximity to one another. And they were all crap, consumers hated them for multiple reasons, poor user interface, unreliable, when they did work they often wouldn't work at the advertised speeds, they had poor locations, etc.

Tesla had zero competition for fast DC charging of cars with NACS ports, a bonafide monopoly, and it's the best network by far for many years running. Consumers love it.

Competition is not necessary to excel at something when you are focused on a worthwhile mission.

And competition does not ensure excellence as Chargepoint, Electrify America, et al. have proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Besides, now that Tesla has officially opened the NACS standard, it's impossible for any company to monopolize it. Tesla will continue growing and expanding their Supercharger Network and it will continue to be the biggest and best fast charging network on the planet. I'm not saying that as a Tesla fan boy, I'm just looking at the facts. The other companies are a mess and don't use first-principles thinking. It shouldn't be so easy for Tesla to best them by such a large margin, but that is the reality of it.

 

[Greshnab]

reflecting on this

you don't care about destination chargers?

it's funny, because i care less about superchargers/L3 than availability of destination chargers at places like hotels, resorts, clubs, etc.

Not really no.. i can go to a supercharger and charge my Y up to full in what 15-20 minutes a CT will prolly be half an hour unless it is a level 4 charger .. in which case.. don't order food you are NOT going to be there long!

so why would i want to choose a slower charge rate... find one with a reasonable charge rate.. fill her up so to speak and move on!

 

[Gurule92]

So vw group next domino to fall?

 

[azjohn]

This is good data but DOE (for political reasons) blends ridiculously slow "fast" chargers with actual fast chargers to boost the numbers. You are not going anywhere if you have to stop at one of Chargepoint's 60 kw chargers. Chargepoint actually has a grand total of 32 fast charging stations over 70 kw. Thirty two. The remaining 26,666 stations you cite above (not really that many) are slow chargers and 60 kw DC chargers.

Electrify America has 800 stations vs Tesla's 1,797 stations. When you add the 32 Chargepoints, and the 260 EVGO stations you are basically at the end of places you can stop when traveling cross country.

I do not disagree with your data, it is just that for political reasons we paid for a bunch of junk 60 kw chargers that are basically useless. Most of those were put into 1-2 port locations at small stores etc. When it comes to real fast charging locations it is Tesla, then EA, then EVGO, then a few bits and pieces.

At the end of your post I was thinking the EVgo EVSEs at Whole Foods

 

[Crissa]

Can some one explain to a technically challenged man how sharing or setting up a standard for what a plug looks like is going to help having a cohesive and functional network that is not a monopoly? My understanding is that EA and EV go can now make something that plugs into a NACS EV but a 25 or 26 Ford will depend on a Ford pass App and subscription to plug and charge only at locations for which the provider company has an agreement with Ford. I am not sure how CT will be using a non-Tesla charger. If Ford has a problem with EVgo and exclude them from their app, the user will have to use their individual account with EVgo. Is there any ongoing effort in creating a real standard for what happens behind the plug? Having an umbrella network that each provider talks to and may be a national App and account that is company agnostic or this is too much to ask? A standard plug seems so trivial if what is behind it is still a mess.

Ahh... That's a bit of a blob of text, there.

• 
  
• Setting standards allows people to use that standard without independently creating contracts with the holder of those licenses. It's a big legal hurdle to get permission.
• 
  
• Setting standards also makes expectations - so if one manufacturer goes out of business or stops supporting it, you can get a third party to do so.
• 
  
• No, adapters for DC charging will have to be either specific to the charging hardware or specific to the vehicle.
• 
  
• Standards would also allow adapters to be more agnostic, but those standards don't exist yet and may never exist because of technical reasons.
• 
  
• Ford's plug and charge is just a payment app that makes it easy to pay. However, there's price discrimination there: It's cheaper to be an EA direct customer than it is to use Ford's plug and charge. ??‍

There's a Tesla app, there's a Ford app. Ford doesn't make a charging network, so they license networks to work with, Tesla has a network, so they don't need to make a license. But... In the future they should.

Standards can help that, too! Standards for app interoperability are a thing. Like how your visa card works all over... The federal monies in fact demand the networks allow this interoperatibility, as well as up to date stall status data. But it needs licensing agreements or standardization to do it. And that doesn't exist yet. There's some CCS version, but it's kinda kludgy so far.

And like Hauling said, just because someone is a monopoly doesn't mean they can't be competent! It just means if they aren't, you're stuck. And it's where the other networks are a monopoly that they actually work the worst! ??‍ Competition means they have to be competent to get customers. Else customers go elsewhere. Monopoly means they don't. Because customers can't go elsewhere.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

So vw group next domino to fall?

VW announced today they're 'looking into it'.

https://electrek.co/2023/06/29/volkswagen-talks-tesla-adopt-nacs-connector/

-Crissa

 

[Knucklehead]

Not really no.. i can go to a supercharger and charge my Y up to full in what 15-20 minutes a CT will prolly be half an hour unless it is a level 4 charger .. in which case.. don't order food you are NOT going to be there long!

so why would i want to choose a slower charge rate... find one with a reasonable charge rate.. fill her up so to speak and move on!

Long range BEVs and destination chargers are the answer. Of course DCFC stations are important, but not like gas stations are.

Your car sits for hours at a time when you are at your destination. Hours and hours. If you can charge while you are there, and you can make it to your next destination, why would you stop at a DCFC station? I wouldn't for sure.

I hate public charging. It sucks. It will suck less when NACS is the true North American standard, but it will suck for years to come. The list of all the reasons it sucks is long.

Charge at home. Charge at your hotel. Charge at your vacation house. Never use a DCFC station. That would be perfect. And the 500 mile CT will help get us there. Faster.

 

[charliemagpie]

Tesla currently has the biggest snowball, and it will grow faster than the others.

I very welcome others coming in and prospering. I value Tesla's charging business not for profit/share price, but as a support network for scaling sales and servicing its Robotaxi network.

I think EV charging expansion will 'outpace' EV production. I reckon within the next couple of years, a 60% growth in the current charging network will make a huge difference... and we go from there. Chargers will be everywhere.

 

[Greshnab]

Long range BEVs and destination chargers are the answer. Of course DCFC stations are important, but not like gas stations are.

Your car sits for hours at a time when you are at your destination. Hours and hours. If you can charge while you are there, and you can make it to your next destination, why would you stop at a DCFC station? I wouldn't for sure.

I hate public charging. It sucks. It will suck less when NACS is the true North American standard, but it will suck for years to come. The list of all the reasons it sucks is long.

Charge at home. Charge at your hotel. Charge at your vacation house. Never use a DCFC station. That would be perfect. And the 500 mile CT will help get us there. Faster.

see i am the opposite .. i almost never stay at a hotel.. if i am on the road i am generally either not going far.. or not staying at a hotel.. i can count on one hand the total number of hotel charges i have on one hand. So the only real destination charge i have is at my house...

with that in mind why in the world would i want my car to sit at a destination charger for hours.. when for under 15 bucks i can get it compleatly charged up while watching a netflix episode and be about my way...

my current car is a Y LR and has over 300 mile range.. my experience with public charging has been awesome <although very very limited> i have NEVER waited in line, i have never had to spend more than 20 minutes to charge, and i have always had connectivity to check mail/browse the web or just erad my newest book. all while in a heated/air conditioned car.

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