How many current / near future CT owners have never owned a truck before?

[HaulingAss]

Especially with the OEM tires as they are a very dumbed down AT tire to try and maximize range.

I think you will find that the OEM Cybertruck All-Terrain tires will not be more prone to sidewall cuts than a traditional non-energy saving all-terrain tire because a stiffer sidewall is also good for low rolling resistance. And you will notice that these tires have very little sidewall bulge, that is what makes many tires vulnerable to sidewall cuts. All-terrain tires are reinforced against sidewall damage and the OEM Cybertruck tires are no exception.

Most sidewall cuts can be avoided by having good driver skills. A good off-road driver picks better lines, and good lines rarely cause sidewall cuts (when combined with appropriate tires and pressures). Also, people rarely understand appropriate pressures to use in different off-road situations. Keeping the tires reasonably aired up for rocky terrain will help prevent sidewall damage which is all too often induced by poor driving and poorly setting tire pressures to match the conditions. I see too many people airing down their tires to ridiculously low pressures for hard ground, simply because they think they need ultra-low pressures anytime they are off-road. These are the people who deal with the lion's share of sidewall cuts.

Few people know that most sidewall damage can be temporarily repaired to get back to civilization, and it can usually be done without dismounting the tire. Still, I suspect I will travel many rough, rocky trails without ever cutting a sidewall on the OEM All Terain tires that will be coming on my Cybertruck because I know how to set appropriate tire pressures and how to pick good lines off-road. Always know where your tires are and what they are doing. It's not rocket science. People just become lax because sidewall cuts are infrequent unless you are really asking for it.

The low rolling resistance nature of the OEM All-Terrain tires will reduce traction off-road, it will not increase vulnerability to sidewall cuts. That's because low rolling resistance is achieved by stiffening the sidewall, using harder rubber compounds and shallower tread depths.

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[CyberGus]

Rivian has been installing chargers at remote locations (none in Utah tho).

https://rivian.com/experience/charging#map

 

[Cyber Man]

Okay...show us how you plan to explore trails in Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument with the current public supercharger infrastructure.

What about the super charger at 21 N Main St, Tropic UT 94776? I haven’t been here, and it’s a large park. So I might be looking at the wrong entrance.

 

[Sleipnir]

What about the super charger at 21 N Main St, Tropic UT 94776? I haven’t been here, and it’s a large park. So I might be looking at the wrong entrance.

That's not a public charger, for customers of the Inn only.

 

[Sleipnir]

Rivian has been installing chargers at remote locations (none in Utah tho).

https://rivian.com/experience/charging#map

Fascinating...I'm sure Rivian owners not traveling in Utah will appreciate this post.

 

[Cyber Man]

That's not a public charger, for customers of the Inn only.

There is one coming up at Bryce Canyon. It’s only 8 miles north of Tropic. I just voted for it.

Look, if we are picking places that are in the middle of nowhere and 100+ miles away from civilization, then yes, Tesla won’t take you there. As super charging improves, people will start exploring further into the wilderness. When Bryce Canyon super charger opens up later this year, I’ll consider GSENM. It’s that simple. I’m not going to sit and complain about how each and every remote possible trail is unreachable by CT! That’s illogical.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I think you will find that the OEM Cybertruck All-Terrain tires will not be more prone to sidewall cuts than a traditional non-energy saving all-terrain tire because a stiffer sidewall is also good for low rolling resistance. And you will notice that these tires have very little sidewall bulge, that is what makes many tires vulnerable to sidewall cuts. All-terrain tires are reinforced against sidewall damage and the OEM Cybertruck tires are no exception.

Most sidewall cuts can be avoided by having good driver skills. A good off-road driver picks better lines, and good lines rarely cause sidewall cuts (when combined with appropriate tires and pressures). Also, people rarely understand appropriate pressures to use in different off-road situations. Keeping the tires reasonably aired up for rocky terrain will help prevent sidewall damage which is all too often induced by poor driving and poorly setting tire pressures to match the conditions.

Wait... what? I consider myself pretty decent at off roading and have done it many years. I *always* air down for going on rock... like 15-20lbs and on some trails, even less. It allows for more grab and wrap around on rocks. Its pretty well known and highly recommended:

https://jacosuperiorproducts.com/bl...g-down-tires-for-off-roading-why-when-and-how

From the article:

Rocky Terrains: Lowering tire pressure in rocky terrains allows your tires to wrap around rocks, providing better grip and reducing the chances of tire damage.

When I don't air down, I spin out on rocky terrain.

I'll agree with you on taking proper lines, etc, but I have never seen a lack of scrapes on sidewalls. Its impossible to avoid over a long run. But its highly recommended to air down on rocky terrain... that kind of goes into 4x4 class 101.

I don't run A/Ts on 4x4ing. I run M/Ts. They have more reinforced sidewalls than A/Ts. They are made for rock and sand. Here is something that explains the difference between A/T and M/T:

https://rbptires.com/mud-terrain-tires/

Because M/T’s are much more aggressive than A/T’s, they are better suited for steep trails, deep mud, and rocky terrain. This is made possible by utilizing a more durable rubber compound, reinforced sidewalls, and more. Mud-terrain tires are capable of handling difficult terrains where all-terrain tires would struggle.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

There is one coming up at Bryce Canyon. It’s only 8 miles north of Tropic. I just voted for it.

Look, if we are picking places that are in the middle of nowhere and 100+ miles away from civilization, then yes, Tesla won’t take you there. As super charging improves, people will start exploring further into the wilderness. When Bryce Canyon super charger opens up later this year, I’ll consider GSENM. It’s that simple. I’m not going to sit and complain about how each and every remote possible trail is unreachable by CT! That’s illogical.

I highly recommend Ophir Pass for you and all other CT owners You can easily do it within charging range and its a pretty awesome trail that a big truck can do. It has some nice sketchy exposure above timberline, but nothing a CT can't handle. No crawling for the most part and just one place where you will need to do a 20 point turn Its one of the places I will probably take my CT for its maiden voyage. You can take it right out of Silverton, CO and it dumps you into the town of Ophir which is just outside of Telluride where you can charge back up. Here are a couple of pics:

 

[HaulingAss]

Okay...show us how you plan to explore trails in Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument with the current public supercharger infrastructure.

Huh? The current Supercharger situation around the Park is excellent. There are chargers no matter which way you approach the park from. I'm not going to plan all your trips for you, but since it's probably a day or more drive for most people, I would plan on camping somewhere just outside the park the night before I entered and charging 90% to 100% in my chosen campground the night before so I could explore my chosen locations over the next 2-3 days. Canyons of Escalante RV Park is less than a mile from the Park and many of the best off-road trails through the Park. Most of the trails in the Park are hard or firm, which will return exceptional range at slower speeds.

I can already tell some people are going to be surprised how far a Cybertruck will go in such terrain at speeds under 30 mph. When I drive my Model 3 on some pretty rugged roads in the North Cascades I love rolling the windows down and cruising along slowly, maximizing efficiency by my driving style, even though I don't need to because a long route that takes most of the day once you have a few stops, lunch, a swim, etc. is less than 50 miles. A lot of people who don't off-road are surprised by the low daily mileage figures, particularly if you like doing things other than driving all day long.

If it's hot out, I keep the A/C on with minimal impact to the range. And the Model 3 only has about a 78 kWh battery and range isn't a problem, not even close, on a day or overnight trip. Remember, the inferior aero of the Cybertruck won't even come into play in any significant manner at typical off-road speeds and it has a much bigger battery. Yes, it's also heavier, but what you put in to climb hills, most of it comes back when you descend using engine braking (regen).

On a beautiful day in pristine scenery with nary a soul around it's a wonderful feeling to be slowly cruising along, picking lines, navigating around rocks and obstructions, hearing your tires interacting with the terrain, the silence of the electric drive allowing the sounds of songbirds and trailside waterfalls to envelope you in the natural environment as you cruise through the scenery and take in the sights.

I'm not saying the trip will be the same as in a gas rig, with gerry cans of extra fuel and the drone of the engine as you climb grades, occasionally taking in whiffs of stinky truck exhaust through the open windows. In most ways, Cybertruck backcountry travel will be immeasurably better.

When I used to off-road in gas rigs, often unbolting and leaving the hardtop at home so we could cruise in the open air, sometimes even flipping the windshield down and latching it to the hood so the light breeze would be in our face, the engine sound was constant. It was a low-rpm, straight six with a cast iron block and good muffler, so it made a nice sound for an ICE engine when slowing navigating obstacles, shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear, low-range, the gears humming along in front of the exhaust sounds, but it was always such a relief to get to a nice rest break and shut the engine down. The silence that would suddenly surround us was deafening in a very good way. Generally, it was so remote I would just stop in the middle of the trail, without concern that anyone else would happen along. It was always so welcome to just hear the sounds of nature, which is to say near silence, excepting for some ruffles of the breeze or a couple of birds singing.

Unlike an electric powered vehicle, a gas truck does not get better mileage cruising through the backcountry at slow speeds. There is no regen, in fact the engine continues consuming gasoline when descending long grades, so your MPG is particularly poor. I love managing my momentum in an EV travelling over rough terrain, and picking efficient lines that minimize wheel slippage. This helps return better range than someone who is trying to run the battery out as as quickly as possible to prove the point that EVs are no good off-road.

I will tell you this:

If you firmly believe the Cybertruck will not work for exploring remote trails, you will be right. And you will never do it. A mental block that says "I can't" is a powerful thing and very difficult for some people to overcome. The people who are the best at saying, " I see how I can" are the ones having the most adventure in a Cybertruck. It does require trip planning skills, but so does a gas vehicle. With ever increasing charging infrastructure, I'm not worried abbout it at all.

 

[HaulingAss]

Wait... what? I consider myself pretty decent at off roading and have done it many years. I *always* air down for going on rock... like 15-20lbs and on some trails, even less. It allows for more grab and wrap around on rocks. Its pretty well known and highly recommended:

https://jacosuperiorproducts.com/bl...g-down-tires-for-off-roading-why-when-and-how

From the article:



When I don't air down, I spin out on rocky terrain.

I'll agree with you on taking proper lines, etc, but I have never seen a lack of scrapes on sidewalls. Its impossible to avoid over a long run. But its highly recommended to air down on rocky terrain... that kind of goes into 4x4 class 101.

I don't run A/Ts on 4x4ing. I run M/Ts. They have more reinforced sidewalls than A/Ts. They are made for rock and sand. Here is something that explains the difference between A/T and M/T:

https://rbptires.com/mud-terrain-tires/

I've never said don't air down!

But, like most things in life, it's a matter of degree. If I need the traction on irregular rock, or the floatation is loose sand, I will air down as needed. But it's a balancing act between how much you air down and how vulnerable you make your tires to flats. Airing down too much causes tread cupping which will reduce traction on smooth, steep rock.

Contrary to popular opinion, airing down does not reduce punctures and sidewall cuts, it increases them. Never air down a lot more than you need to to safely navigate the terrain you are on. It's always a good idea to air down at least 5 psi below your normal highway pressures, even for easy terrain/gravel roads, simply because it's never as smooth and regular as pavement.

 

[Sleipnir]

Huh? The current Supercharger situation around the Park is excellent. There are chargers no matter which way you approach the park from. I'm not going to plan all your trips for you, but since it's probably a day or more drive for most people, I would plan on camping somewhere just outside the park the night before I entered and charging to 100% the night before so I could explore to my chosen locations over the next 2-3 days. Canyons of Escalante RV park is less than a mile from the Park and many of the best off-road trails through the Park. Most of the trails in the Park are hard or firm, which will return exceptional range at slower speeds.

I can already tell some people are going to be surprised how far a Cybertruck will go in such terrain at speeds under 30 mph. When I drive my Model 3 on some pretty rugged roads in the North Cascades I love rolling the windows down and cruising along slowly, maximizing efficiency by my driving style, even though I don't need to because a long route that takes most of the day once you have a few stops, lunch, a swim, etc. is less than 50 miles. If it's hot out, I keep the A/C on with minimal impact to the range. And the Model 3 only has about a 78 kWh battery and range isn't a problem, not even close, on a day or overnight trip. Remember, the inferior aero of the Cybertruck won't even come into play in any significant manner at typical off-road speeds and it has a much bigger battery. Yes, it's also heavier, but what you put in to climb hills, most of it comes back when you descend using engine braking (regen).

On a beautiful day in pristine scenery with nary a soul around it's a wonderful feeling to be slowly cruising along, picking lines, navigating around rocks and obstructions, hearing your tires interacting with the terrain, the silence of the electric drive allowing the sounds of songbirds and trailside waterfalls to envelope you in the natural environment as you cruise through the scenery and take in the sights.

I'm not saying the trip will be the same as in a gas rig, with gerry cans of extra fuel and the drone of the engine as you climb grades, occasionally taking in whiffs of stinky truck exhaust through the open windows. In most ways, Cybertruck backcountry travel will be immeasurably better.

When I used to off-road in gas rigs, often unbolting and leaving the hardtop at home so we could cruise in the open air, sometimes even flipping the windshield down and latching it to the hood so the light breeze would be in our face, the engine sound was constant. It was a low-rpm, straight six with a cast iron block and good muffler, so it made a nice sound for an ICE engine when slowing navigating obstacles, shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear, low-range, the gears humming along in front of the exhaust sounds, but it was always such a relief to get to a nice rest break and shut the engine down. The silence that would suddenly surround us was deafening in a very good way. Generally, it was so remote I would just stop in the middle of the trail, without concern that anyone else would happen along. It was always so welcome to just hear the sounds of nature, which is to say near silence, excepting for some ruffles of the breeze or a couple of birds singing.

Unlike an electric powered vehicle, a gas truck does not get better mileage cruising through the backcountry at slow speeds. There is no regen, in fact the engine continues consuming gasoline when descending long grades, so your MPG is particularly poor. I love managing my momentum in an EV travelling over rough terrain, and picking efficient lines that minimize wheel slippage. This helps return better range than someone who is trying to run the battery out as as quickly as possible to prove the point that EVs are no good off-road.

I will tell you this:

If you firmly believe the Cybertruck will not work for exploring remote trails, you will be right. And you will never do it. A mental block that says "I can't" is a powerful thing and very difficult for some people to overcome. The people who are the best at saying, " I see how I can" are the ones having the most adventure in a Cybertruck. It does require trip planning skills, but so does a gas vehicle. With ever increasing charging infrastructure, I'm not worried abbout it at all.

Destination chargers and Superchargers are not the same. If you’re ok with having to reserve a room or campsite and pay the associated fees vs enjoying the limitless free camping on public land then yes, there are options.[/QUOTE]

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Contrary to popular opinion, airing down does not reduce punctures and sidewall cuts, it increases them.

I don't agree with this. Airing down will allow a rock to push in and the rubber will move due to deflection. When you don't air down, you have a rock pushing against very hard rubber that doesn't have as much give. Thats when you get tears because rock vs hard rubber... the rock will win nearly every time.

I don't think this is popular opinion... its pretty well known knowledge for off roaders. I think where your comment may come into play is the type of tire used and its material content. For a normal tire and even perhaps an A/T, its possible that deflation and a rock may snag it. For an off road M/T, they are made for that. They don't get caught and they are pliable without tears for the most part. I have never blown a sidewall on my Nitto Trail Grapplers and I have done 8-10 rating trails with granite and very sharp rocks. They get a good scraping and road rash (normal for off roading), but zero damage.

Never air down a lot more than you need to to safely navigate the terrain you are on. It's always a good idea to air down at least 5 psi below your normal highway pressures, even for easy terrain/gravel roads, simply because it's never as smooth and regular as pavement.

This I fully agree with.

 

[HaulingAss]

Destination chargers and Superchargers are not the same. If you’re ok with having to reserve a room or campsite and pay the associated fees vs enjoying the limitless free camping on public land then yes, there are options.

Destination chargers and Superchargers are not the same? Oh, wait, you're right. Ha-ha. So what.

Why wouldn't I be OK with camping at a campground near the park entrance??

The park under discussion is very remote from where people live so I'm going to be ready to camp by the time I arrive. As to the cost, a night in a campground costs much less than a single tank of gasoline. Anyone worried about costs probably shouldn't be on an adventure in a gas powerred truck either.

You are making zero sense.

 

[HaulingAss]

I don't agree with this. Airing down will allow a rock to push in and the rubber will move due to deflection. When you don't air down, you have a rock pushing against very hard rubber that doesn't have as much give. Thats when you get tears because rock vs hard rubber... the rock will win nearly every time.

That's a common misconception. The fact is, a fully inflated All Terrain tire has enough strength in the tread that it can support it's entire weight rating on the typical pyramid shaped rock that comes to a point like a pyramid does. I've never had a tread puncture from the point of a rock.

For a normal tire and even perhaps an A/T, its possible that deflation and a rock may snag it. For an off road M/T, they are made for that. They don't get caught and they are pliable without tears for the most part. I have never blown a sidewall on my Nitto Trail Grapplers and I have done 8-10 rating trails with granite and very sharp rocks. They get a good scraping and road rash (normal for off roading), but zero damage.

Yes, All Terrain tires are reinforced against sidewall cuts (and it's not called a "blowout" that is something that happens from excessive heat buildup, generally on highways). However, that's another reason to avoid airing down more than necessary. Airing down builds heat and heat softens rubber, making it more prone to cuts.

But to get to my point, yes, airing down excessively makes the sidewall bulge out, even if it bulges somewhat less compared to a pure road tire, and that bulging out makes the tire more exposed to sidewall cuts.

This whole line of discussion started by someone claiming the All-Terrain tires on the Cybertruck were not sufficiently reinforced to prevent sidewall cuts compared to a non-energy saving All-Terrain tire. Of course they made that claim without a shred of evidence that it was true.

 

[Crissa]

Closest SC to the town of Escalante is 130 miles or so. You'll be lucky to get there and back to a SC much less venturing out for any adventure. Math is still hard.

Anywhere with gas will have electricity and you can charge.

Many places without gas will have electricity, and you can charge.

-Crissa

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