How many current / near future CT owners have never owned a truck before?

[M0unt41nm4n]

That's a common misconception. The fact is, a fully inflated All Terrain tire has enough strength in the tread that it can support it's entire weight rating on the typical pyramid shaped rock that comes to a point like a pyramid does. I've never had a tread puncture from the point of a rock.

Yes, All Terrain tires are reinforced against sidewall cuts (and it's not called a "blowout" that is something that happens from excessive heat buildup, generally on highways). However, that's another reason to avoid airing down more than necessary. Airing down builds heat and heat softens rubber, making it more prone to cuts.

But to get to my point, yes, airing down excessively makes the sidewall bulge out, even if it bulges somewhat less compared to a pure road tire, and that bulging out makes the tire more exposed to sidewall cuts.

I'll disagree pointing to my post here:

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...-never-owned-a-truck-before.12139/post-245009

In particular, the post on M/T and the associated link and the quote from the article stating "durable rubber compound, reinforced sidewalls, and more".

I won't argue about the A/T having strength as yes they are made for that. But I will say airing down in order to prevent a sidewall puncture or tear is most certainly common knowledge for the off road community as one of the benefits. I explained the physics in my previous post which really comes down to flexibility of the tire. See here:

https://www.azbackroads.com/information/airing-down-tires-unleashing-off-road-performance/

Number 4 supports it which states:

4. Suppressed Tire Damage - When tires are fully inflated, they are more susceptible to damage from sharp rocks, potholes, or other obstacles you may encounter off-road. By airing down, the tires’ increased flexibility helps to absorb and distribute the impact forces, reducing the risk of punctures or sidewall damage. This not only prolongs the lifespan of your tires but also mitigates the chances of having a flat tire in remote or challenging off-road locations.

That said... you are right about my term "blow out". I should have used the word "puncture".

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[Sleipnir]

Destination chargers and Superchargers are not the same? Oh, wait, you're right. Ha-ha. So what.

Why wouldn't I be OK with camping at a campground near the park entrance??

The park under discussion is very remote from where people live so I'm going to be ready to camp by the time I arrive. As to the cost, a night in a campground costs much less than a single tank of gasoline. Anyone worried about costs probably shouldn't be on an adventure in a gas powerred truck either.

You are making zero sense.

The longer this conversation gets the more asinine you reveal yourself to be. Good luck man.

 

[Sleipnir]

Anywhere with gas will have electricity and you can charge.

Many places without gas will have electricity, and you can charge.

-Crissa

Um…are you genetically related to HaulingAss?

 

[Crissa]

Um…are you genetically related to HaulingAss?

No.

I just think it's dumb when I've seen Rivians cross South America, Zeros take the Trans-American Trail. A Zero crossed Africa! And a Nissan EV made it to the South Pole.
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/pole-to-pole-ev-expedition-reaches-the-south-pole

Like, they didn't even need superchargers to do it.

-Crissa

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I've seen Rivians cross South America, Zeros take the Trans-American Trail.

Like, they didn't even need superchargers to do it.

-Crissa

Was that from "The Long Way Up"? Great series on the HD Livewires and the Rivian. The series almost got me to buy a Livewire. But to be fair, they did have to use a generator several times

 

[Sleipnir]

No.

I just think it's dumb when I've seen Rivians cross South America, Zeros take the Trans-American Trail. A Zero crossed Africa! And a Nissan EV made it to the South Pole.
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/pole-to-pole-ev-expedition-reaches-the-south-pole

Like, they didn't even need superchargers to do it.

-Crissa

I look forward to you trying to poach 110 outlets across rural Utah to trickle charge your CT on this adventure. Hopefully you have a goal zero kit to solar charge as well as that would be an enthralling video to watch.

 

[Cyber Man]

I look forward to you trying to poach 110 outlets across rural Utah to trickle charge your CT on this adventure. Hopefully you have a goal zero kit to solar charge as well as that would be an enthralling video to watch.

20 years ago people said the same for EVs. Here we are doing 0-60 under 2.6 seconds in a truck going neck to neck with one of the fastest gas engine sports cars. It’s very clear that some people just want to prove EVs can’t be trucks and can’t go wherever trucks go. No point arguing with that. Time will tell. I know for sure which Beast I’ll be riding when the bright future unfolds

 

[csphili]

Current daily driver: 2012 Prius with Pirelli tires and aftermarket sound system. Looking forward to the cybertruck!

 

[Crissa]

Was that from "The Long Way Up"? Great series on the HD Livewires and the Rivian. The series almost got me to buy a Livewire. But to be fair, they did have to use a generator several times

A guy I know built them a portable CCS charger on spec, but for some reason, they never used it.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

I look forward to you trying to poach 110 outlets across rural Utah to trickle charge your CT on this adventure. Hopefully you have a goal zero kit to solar charge as well as that would be an enthralling video to watch.

There are hundreds of RV parks in Utah, most with 240.

There are more EV charging spots than gas pumps.

-Crissa

 

[heems]

Added some pics for ya.

Trouble with the CT is that it's already so range challenged for remote travel that anything you hang off it is just exacerbating the deficiency. It's not the right platform for that. Anyone that builds out a CT with the overland attire is posing in the worst way. Electric will never be the right choice for remote travel until battery density allows for 1000 mile range or charging becomes available in the middle of nowhere (which makes no sense economically so it would have to be some federal program).

Maybe we should go beyond thinking fossil stations. Do you really think something like this - Vault deployed solar umbrella - is impossible? We are talking never having to go to charge station while remote. Which Jeep does that ? Tat is a concept but so was the CT. The future is open. (Factual sounding) Statements like you need gigillion batteries is misleading kids. Dream bigger.

 

[Gurule92]

Really, if you can find 2 110v outlets on different circuits you could use this or something like it

https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-B...3&psc=1&mcid=277851c83cad3e828062539e668a2d48

 

[HaulingAss]

I'll disagree pointing to my post here:

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...-never-owned-a-truck-before.12139/post-245009

In particular, the post on M/T and the associated link and the quote from the article stating "durable rubber compound, reinforced sidewalls, and more".

The article you cite as evidence was written by a young man who retails tools for airing tires down, measuring tire pressures and airing them back up. He lists his position as eCommerce Lead and his specialties as "Online Advertising" and "brand Strategy". My point is not that the gear they sell is not good stuff to use, it's that his expertise is in selling the gear, not necessarily in tires and the physics of off-roading. You can find websites that say the Earth is flat. Just because someone writes an article doesn't mean they know what they are saying.

The subject of tire pressure and puctures/cuts is complex - there are no easy answers. But the science is not intuitive. There is no doubt that thousands of sidewall cuts could have been avoided with higher pressures to reduce sidewall bulge, sidewall bulge is a major contributer to sidewall cuts.

The idea of tread punctures from sharp rocks due to tires inflated at or slightly below manufacturers recommended road pressures is a red herring because it's very rare for a rock to puncture through the tread. While it's true that lower pressures allow the tire to conform more to irregular objects, that does not imply lower pressures will substantially change the incidence of punctures from rocks because rocks capable of puncturing a tire are rare. Generally when a rock puntures a tire it is a sharp rock fragment that gradually works its way between and through the protective belts, gradually. You might not get a flat tire for a month or more from when you picked up the rock fragment. Higher pressures reduce the incidence of this too.

I do agree that very low pressures lower the chances of punctures from a few specific types of puncture hazards due to the tire conforming around the hazard and reducing the pressure on the point of the hazard, but I do not agree that this is common enough to cause lower pressures to have an overall lower rate of punctures. Rocks that sharp are relatively uncommon, especially ones that are positioned such that they will cause a puncture.

Most All Terrain tires inflated at or a bit below the manufacturers recommended inflation pressure can drive over some really pointed rocks without any damage whatsoever. That's because tires are not rubber bladders but the have internal belts composed of extremely tough woven fibers embedded in the rubber. Some of their strength in use is provided by the pressure in the tire supporting the belts, stretching them tight. Running low pressures works the fibers excessively and weakens them, making them more susceptible to punctures over time. The belts may be very strong, but they do not like to bent repeatedly as happens when driving underinflated tires.

I won't argue about the A/T having strength as yes they are made for that. But I will say airing down in order to prevent a sidewall puncture or tear is most certainly common knowledge for the off road community as one of the benefits. I explained the physics in my previous post which really comes down to flexibility of the tire.

Some off-road tires are specifically designed to be aired down for superior off-road traction. Common All Terrain tires are not. Different tire constructions require different pressures. Most All Terrain tires are designed primarily for on-road use and excessive airing down compromises them over time, creating more punctures. Even the first time you air them them down you are more susceptable to sidewall cuts due to the greater bulge just above the contact patch.

My point is that common knowledge is not always right and that the off-road community leans towards airing down their tires more than optimum for reliability and often to lower pressures than they type of terrain they are on actually demands. Most off-roaders are relative novices and just do what they have heard. They often have rigs more capable than themselves that will never be fully utilized due to their own lack of skill and knowledge. It's difficult to learn what works when you are driving a super capable rig on relatively beginner terrain (because whatever you do is going to work).

My advice is to only air down as much as actually required, don't be that yahoo that tries to play the part of a seasoned off-roader by airing down their road going All Terrain tires to 15 psi on a 7000 lb. truck on rocky terrain simply because someone told them it was a good idea or because they want that sidewall bulge so they look like an experienced off-roader. That's not gonna turn out well overall. Your tires will hate you. Only air down as to what conditions actually require. And don't believe everything you hear, it's not always applicable to your situation or equipment.

 

[Sleipnir]

There are hundreds of RV parks in Utah, most with 240.

There are more EV charging spots than gas pumps.

-Crissa

Right, but you can’t just roll up and plug in. So unless your overland adventure is actually a tour of rv parks it’s not exactly convenient. I know reading comprehension is hard but this debate was started by folks saying they could use their CT to replicate my trips to the places in the photos I posted. None of them are day trips that an rv park or destination charger will solve for. The fact remains that public superchargers do not support travel to these places. It’s physics. Argue with it all you want, you’re still wrong.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

@HaulingAss - Not quoting the entire point above.... just answering.

I appreciate your response and also appreciate the civility of the discussion.

As for the article... there are hundreds of those. I just chose that because it was quick and to the point. There are thousands of reddit discussions and other forums surrounding the airing down concept and numbers, etc. We won't get anywhere posting lots of these. It comes down to experience. I don't question your experience as an off-roader as I don't know you. But I have been doing this since the late 90s and have learned quite a bit. I consider myself quite good at rock crawling. So I won't measure my experience against yours, but I will say with confidence that I certainly know what I am doing. I'm not a yahoo nor life style driver... I am a serious off roader with a lot of off-road miles under my belt.

I stand by my comments about airing down as my statements are physics based and your points make some valid points as well. But flex is where it's at for preventing a puncture or incursion on the sidewall. I would never air down outside of crawling/4x4 which is why I have an air compressor on board. Riding low air on pavement will certainly heat the tire up and cup, and it's also dangerous. But lower air off road is more comfortable, allows more grip/traction, and provides lower chances of sidewall punctures. Thats my statement and I stand by it from my knowledge and about 25 years of experience. I will give one last example that may help folks understand. Take a balloon and blow it up as hard/full as you can. Take your finger and press the side to try and pop it. It's actually not that difficult to pop. Now take a ballon that is only half blown up with air. Take your finger and press hard. It's pretty difficult to pop... you may even hit the other side of the ballon and it won't pop. Thats the example of flex preventing an incursion.

I want to make clear that I agree with you that it is subjective. I put my Jeep with its Nittos down to 15-20psi because that is where it works for that rig. I would/have never put my Ford F350 down to that level because it actually is 8000 lbs and they run A/Ts and not M/Ts. Even with M/Ts, they wouldn't go down that low due to sheer weight. There is no specidfic number but the rule of thumb for my A/Ts are 25-35% down its rated pressures for off roading. Thats a start/rule of thumb, not a final.

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