Towing 28’ 7” RV trailer from San Antonio to Port Aransas and back.

[Darthamerica]

So physics only counts if ICE wins?

did you see the Bowlus video? That is with a Beast as I recall. AWD is lower wpm

No, physics always wins. This isn’t an ICE vs EV thing. This is an issue of the limitations you’ll face when towing with the CT. First, no one outside of a test scenario is going to tow from 100-0% unless you want to get stranded. Also that Bowlus scenario is a best case with a trailer optimized for aero and light weight. Even so that’s closer ~100-150 miles in the real world because you’ll need to have enough range to reach the next charger. Then are you going to spend 1-2 hours charging back up to 100%? Probably not. More like 80% and then move to the next SC. If you don’t believe me go to the web and look at how far apart SCs are spaced during a long 200+ mile road trip.

I love EVs as much as I love ICE, but it’s important to be realistic about expectations in the real world. An ICE truck will easily double the towing range we get from our CTs. As Tesla fans and/or early adopters, we are ok with the tradeoffs. But potential new customers who tow a lot will certainly find this to be an inconvenience.

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[MeadowShade]

spending $132.00 to fill up in 10 minutes vs 20 -30 minutes to charge in the range 20-80% works for us. Over 100,000 miles on Teslas and never $100 oil change or gallons of blue def.
So, since 90%+ is local, EV’s are a great choice for us.

 

[Darthamerica]

spending $132.00 to fill up in 10 minutes vs 20 -30 minutes to charge in the range 20-80% works for us. Over 100,000 miles on Teslas and never $100 oil change or gallons of blue def.
So, since 90%+ is local, EV’s are a great choice for us.

I agree that EVs are great! That’s why I’m on my 3rd Tesla and 300K miles in which is why I know what the limitations are. I AM NOT SAYING CT can’t tow. I AM SAYING CT can’t out perform most ICE vehicles In terms of range and convenience while towing. The reason for that is battery energy density. We need a 2 to 4x improvement there Before we are comparable. Or EVs could be made with absurdly large batteries like the Chevy Silverado EV. Until then we will have to be ok with shorter range and frequent charging stops.

 

[buyitrita]

I drive this route regularly - originally with a P85, then a 100D, then a Plaid, and now a CT Beast. And yes, the SC environment in trailer-towing areas is..................less than optimal.
V2 superchargers on I37 in south Texas and on I10 in west Texas are seriously disappointing. We were thrilled when they were originally built, but what was once ok is now obsolete. Pull-through V4 SC sites need to replace the existing V2 sites.
Even brand-new V3 sites like Ozona and Kenedy are not optimal. Perhaps the new SC team can get ahead of the development curve - no more hotels and only pull-throughs please. Anyway, much better now than years ago.
IMHO better SCs are better than bigger batteries. YMMV

 

[Darthamerica]

I drive this route regularly - originally with a P85, then a 100D, then a Plaid, and now a CT Beast. And yes, the SC environment in trailer-towing areas is..................less than optimal.
V2 superchargers on I37 in south Texas and on I10 in west Texas are seriously disappointing. We were thrilled when they were originally built, but what was once ok is now obsolete. Pull-through V4 SC sites need to replace the existing V2 sites.
Even brand-new V3 sites like Ozona and Kenedy are not optimal. Perhaps the new SC team can get ahead of the development curve - no more hotels and only pull-throughs please. Anyway, much better now than years ago.
IMHO better SCs are better than bigger batteries. YMMV

I somewhat agree with this. I’d say SCs are an acceptable compromise vs bigger batteries. It would have been great to have the originally predicted 500 miles of range without the need for an extender in the bed of the truck. But in hindsight that was overly optimistic. I should have known better when I traded my original Model S for the AP1 P90D under the promise that it would be able to drive itself from driveway to driveway. I don’t regret it though because it is still a great car with AP1 and it was ahead of its time. I feel the same way about CT although the gap between CT and today’s competition is a lot closer. That’s why the unique design is important and the SCs are still a competitive advantage for now.

 

[canyoncarver]

I agree that EVs are great! That’s why I’m on my 3rd Tesla and 300K miles in which is why I know what the limitations are. I AM NOT SAYING CT can’t tow. I AM SAYING CT can’t out perform most ICE vehicles In terms of range and convenience while towing. The reason for that is battery energy density. We need a 2 to 4x improvement there Before we are comparable. Or EVs could be made with absurdly large batteries like the Chevy Silverado EV. Until then we will have to be ok with shorter range and frequent charging stops.

People are so defensive when being faced with simple cold hard facts.

Batteries still can't compete with the energy density that hydrocarbon fuel is capable of.... not to mention that a large truck, towing a trailer, with a huge tank can be refueled in under 5 minutes at any one of thousands of fueling stations in even the most remote parts of the country.

Maybe when pack sizes are 50% larger than they are now and faster charging is ubiquitous then it will be more practical for more people who use their truck as a truck.

 

[MeadowShade]

I agree that the battery packs need to be bigger. Look what is in the Pepsi trucks. But, most people's use is only occasionally on trips and around town every day. Batteries and EV's ARE best in town. However, there is a trade off. On big trips, more stops, less range than ICE. Around town, better efficiency and just a perfect match compared to ICE.
I have trips right in front of me over 7,000 miles in the CT with a camper in tow.
Confident that most days there will only be one more stop than with ICE and we can "fill up" every night at the camp grounds ... 30-50amp service while we sleep. So, seeing campgrounds as a fuel stop is a game changer.
I expect to keep battery between 20-80% nearly all the time. That means a usable amount is 73kw times 600wpm is 123 miles per cycle and if I go 10-90% that is 164 miles. So I am planning for 150 cycles in the am and 120 in the afternoon on travel days. That puts us nearly 300 miles with one charge stop since we get to start each day full.

 

[Darthamerica]

I agree that the battery packs need to be bigger. Look what is in the Pepsi trucks. But, most people's use is only occasionally on trips and around town every day. Batteries and EV's ARE best in town. However, there is a trade off. On big trips, more stops, less range than ICE. Around town, better efficiency and just a perfect match compared to ICE.
I have trips right in front of me over 7,000 miles in the CT with a camper in tow.
Confident that most days there will only be one more stop than with ICE and we can "fill up" every night at the camp grounds ... 30-50amp service while we sleep. So, seeing campgrounds as a fuel stop is a game changer.
I expect to keep battery between 20-80% nearly all the time. That means a usable amount is 73kw times 600wpm is 123 miles per cycle and if I go 10-90% that is 164 miles. So I am planning for 150 cycles in the am and 120 in the afternoon on travel days. That puts us nearly 300 miles with one charge stop since we get to start each day full.

It’s not that simple. Larger packs are a crutch because they add a very undesirable penalty, weight! Weight makes the vehicle less efficient, often bigger, and it increases wear and tear. Elon Musk has talked about being able to make a Model S with 600 miles by including a massive battery. Tesla didn’t do that because of the reasons above and cost.

What’s necessary and what we don’t have are more energy dense batteries. That means the same, similar or lighter weight by MORE energy. By more I mean 2x plus. Until then it’s just not a fair comparison with ICE because fossil fuels are so much more energy dense and that’s accounting for how terribly inefficient they are.

Our Cybertrucks are fine for what most people will do with a truck. But for those who are serious about towing and do it often, it’s not the best option simply because batteries aren’t there yet. But that’s ok because there’s a big market for us casual pickup truck drivers. Tesla is capitalizing on that as they should.

We can revisit this in the 2030s when we might see new battery technology bring Cybertruck 2.0 closer to the capabilities of ICE pickup trucks in terms of towing. And for the record, I’m very confident that batteries will get there eventually. Just not today or tomorrow.

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