Rivian R1T Refresh (Gen 2) Dethrones CyberBeast? 0-60 in 2.5s

[HaulingAss]

Not sure it matters. The new R1 quad doesn't exist yet and with Rivian hemorrhaging cash there is a chance it never exists. With the Rivian factory shutdown, which feels like it was longer than planned, this quarter the losses will be epic.

The new R1 quad feels like a desperate hail Mary attempt to gain credibility in a sea of mounting financial losses. Rivian shouldn't be striving for the truck 0-60mph crown, that's not what trucks were about when they were all gas and diesel, and it's not what they are about now. That's why I got a Dual Motor Cybertruck.

They should be focusing on making their products more functional, more useful, more affordable, not putting in even better times at the track. They were already fast enough and they don't have the time or the money to be focusing on this. They should put their effort into making their products more efficient so they can make them more affordably, requiring a less expensive battery that is lighter.

It's a crying shame that the R1T, with a smaller cabin and much smaller bed volume, a shorter wheelbase and narrower track, weighs more than the bigger, tougher Cybertruck. The smaller Rivian has thin, soft aluminum body panels and it still weighs more than the Cybertruck.

Rivian only has so many engineers, they need to be working on things that can bring them to profitability. Insane acceleration is becoming somewhat blase, at least in a truck that can't really put it to good use.

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[Gurule92]

The new R1 quad feels like a desperate hail Mary attempt to gain credibility in a sea of mounting financial losses. Rivian shouldn't be striving for the truck 0-60mph crown, that's not what trucks were about when they were all gas and diesel, and it's not what they are about now. That's why I got a Dual Motor Cybertruck.

They should be focusing on making their products more functional, more useful, more affordable, not putting in even better times at the track. They were already fast enough and they don't have the time or the money to be focusing on this. They should put their effort into making their products more efficient so they can make them more affordably, requiring a less expensive battery that is lighter.

It's a crying shame that the R1T, with a smaller cabin and much smaller bed volume, a shorter wheelbase and narrower track, weighs more than the bigger, tougher Cybertruck. The smaller Rivian has thin, soft aluminum body panels and it still weighs more than the Cybertruck.

Rivian only has so many engineers, they need to be working on things that can bring them to profitability. Insane acceleration is becoming somewhat blase, at least in a truck that can't really put it to good use.

I think youre underestimating the impact that the efficiency gains and cost saving measures will have on their bottom line.

Smaller batteries with same range is a pretty good indicator

 

[HaulingAss]

Now, to be fair, there’s one thing that I like about the Rivian, it has a screen in front of driver. Something I wish Tesla should’ve have done. Like they did for the S and X. Or at least a HUD.

That's the first thing I noticed that I didn't like, you have to peer down between the spokes of the steering wheel to see critical data. That means I can only adjust the steering wheel to the one height I can see the display and the spokes block it from view in normal driving.

Just dumb. I'm not sure why so many cars continue with this idiocy other than it's what people have become accustomed to. I've had major pain (knot) between my shoulder blades because I couldn't put the steering where my ergonomics wanted it. But never in our Tesla's because they don't display critical data behind the steering wheel.

 

[HaulingAss]

I think youre underestimating the impact that the efficiency gains and cost saving measures will have on their bottom line.

Smaller batteries with same range is a pretty good indicator

I'm just not tolking on the hopium pipe. I WANT Rivian to be profitable, but they are so far from that I can't honestly HOPE.

Each Tesla vehicle was profitable on a gross profit per vehicle basis, even as the company lost money overall, due to building out the Supercharger and Service networks, corporate overhead, etc. But Rivian has always lost money on every vehicle, even when looked at from a gross profit perspective. It's a stark difference.

Expecting Rivian to become even only gross profitable on the refreshed R1 just because Tesla did it, under-estimates how special Tesla was, how efficient they were in all their processes, to achieve that. It's not easy and Rivian is nowhere near close to being able to do that.

Put down the hopium hookah and read the financials. I've been an investor as long as I can remember and hope is never a viable investment strategy. You need to invest in companies that make magic happen. Rivian makes good vehicles but they struggle with production efficiency, reliability, durability, and thus warranty expense per vehicle.

This refreshed R1 will reduce the loss per vehicle, but they need to eliminate it, and turn it into a gross profit. I wish that were in the cards but I don't see how they can change fast enough to make it happen. It has become apparent to the investor in me that they don't have the "right stuff". It saddens me to say that, but investing is not a game of cheerleading and hope. It's cold hard analysis.

 

[HaulingAss]

The market in America for SUV type vehicles is absolutely huge, so there is certainly an opportunity for the kinds of vehicles that Rivian makes to sell in large numbers, they just have to do it efficiently enough to get the price down.

From a personal perspective, the reason I can't buy any of the vehicles Rivian has revealed to date is I don't like SUV's. And I don't consider the R1T a truck, it's bed is too small. Too short and too shallow. And nothing about the Rivian is tough. That thin, expensive aluminum body might be OK on a passenger vehicle, not a truck. But that is just my preference.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

I am a current Rivian R1T Quad and Cyberbest owner. I really see them as two different propositions. Yes they are both electric trucks, but their experience is very very different.

I personally am excited that Rivian is raising the bar on their engineering and profitability. They have made a faster, cheaper to manufacture, more tech laden version of their offering. That's awesome. The new Quad will be a force and the R1T is a marvel of packaging. So many small smart details everywhere in a small package. It's a great product that more than likely meets more of the needs of the average EV truck buyer than the CT. Also Rivian really cares about building a brand in a way that Tesla doesn't and i think long term that's going to pay dividends for them and their car values.

The Cyberbeast is great. It's classic Tesla, minimalist, fast, well engineered with some blind spots that may or may not become issues. No one does acceleration mapping and traction control better than Tesla, and that makes for a superior driving experience vs the Rivian. But inside I do miss some of the smart little features of the R1T.

This new Quad will be quick, and I AM annoyed that it's supposedly faster (using 300 additional hp) than the Beast. I am hoping that Tesla held some back in motor ratings to offer a performance boost OTA.

Does anyone know why they didn't put the Plaid powertrain in the Beast? Is it the 800v architecture?

Regardless this is a great time to enjoy HP. Don't hate on the competition, it's good for all of us, and don't be a fanboy, there Is good work happening all across the industry, not just one company.

 

[Bartman]

2.59 second 0-60 on warmed up street tires vs 2.6 seconds on AT tires for the Beast….I bet the beast beats it on warmed up street tires. Plus those headlights will always be Fugly.

That's funny because I leased an R1T because my wife said "If you park one of those ugly Cybertrucks in our driveway, I'm moving out of this house." And she was NOT joking. So now I have a Rivian truck, which she thinks looks fine. Only had it for two weeks and it's pretty nice, but I really did want to get the Cybertruck after waiting all that time. I only have a two year lease, so who knows....

 

[Bartman]

That's funny because I leased an R1T because my wife said "If you park one of those ugly Cybertrucks in our driveway, I'm moving out of this house." And she was NOT joking. So now I have a Rivian truck, which she thinks looks fine. Only had it for two weeks and it's pretty nice, but I really did want to get the Cybertruck after waiting all that time. I only have a two year lease, so who knows.... Plus, I got a freaking awesome deal on a 2023 model lease. The Money Factor equates to about 1% interest.

 

[jsquared]

Until something else comes out that looks as cool as the Cybertruck, nothing will dethrone it.

 

[HaulingAss]

Does anyone know why they didn't put the Plaid powertrain in the Beast? Is it the 800v architecture?

Obviously, because the Cybertruck is a truck, it can't have the powertrain of a car. Cyberbeast is optimized to move more mass. The Plaid powertrain is optimized for more speed.

Regardless this is a great time to enjoy HP. Don't hate on the competition, it's good for all of us, and don't be a fanboy, there Is good work happening all across the industry, not just one company.

To be clear, I wasn't "hating on the competition", I was giving an analysis of actual financial prospects that weren't based on false hope. There is a big difference between being honest and hate. Rivian makes good EVs but they are barely more efficient than legacy auto and while the new designs will offer some savings, Rivian will still be forced to sell them at a loss. That's not sustainable. I wish they could make them more efficiently, but they didn't even invest in gigacastings. The writing is on the wall.

I hope I'm wrong, but hope is not a viable investment strategy.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Obviously, because the Cybertruck is a truck, it can't have the powertrain of a car. Cyberbeast is optimized to move more mass.

Well that wouldnt really matter car vs truck. It should come down to HP and Torque, and then the supporting axles and such to handle it. The GVWR of a Model X Plaid and a CT is a lot different so the strains would be significantly more on things like axles, cv, etc. Maybe the Plaid layout cant do 800v or Rear Wheel Steer in the space available?

And on Rivian, sorry @HaulingAss, wasnt coming at you! Was more just talking in general. I do think Rivian will survive. Will be good to know what these new margins look like on the refresh, and the R2 and R3 are going to be their real volume drivers. Not unlike what the Model 3 and Y did for Tesla. I do think you will see casting used in the R2 and R3, it would have been a TON of work to redo the R1 series, and you know that series is going to play a smaller and smaller role in the mix.

 

[Cybertruck2024]

I am a bit bummed I can no longer say I drive the fastest truck on earth. You can also be sure Tesla is bummed they need to remove that from the CT fact sheet, they obviously pride themselves on performance specs. These specs do matter. Want to not advertise traditionally? You need to put something out that gets articles and word or mouth without ad spend. "Second fastest truck on earth" isn't getting that done.

 

[Frank Mendez]

Admin edit -- see full list of refreshed R1T / R1S review articles & videos:

Official Reveal: R1T & R1S Refresh (2nd Gen) Specs and Photos!

Refreshed 2nd Gen 2025 R1T 0-60 2.5 Seconds!

I received my invite to order a Foundation Series Cybertruck. I am now torn. I see the Rivian R1T with 400+ miles of range and enough towing capacity that it meets my needs where as the Cybertruck is listed at 333 miles. I don't want to pay $16K for a bed box to get the miles up and I don't want to tow a trailer only to have to charge every 150 miles. I am leaning to buying a diesel truck to do my towing as much as it pains me. I am not sure why Tesla decided to not make the truck to the original mileage spec. I am definitely passing on the Foundation Series.

 

[tingmo13]

Admin edit -- see full list of refreshed R1T / R1S review articles & videos:

Official Reveal: R1T & R1S Refresh (2nd Gen) Specs and Photos!

Refreshed 2nd Gen 2025 R1T 0-60 2.5 Seconds!

then buy Rivian -are you confused or just wasting time online?

 

[carsly]

I am a bit bummed I can no longer say I drive the fastest truck on earth. You can also be sure Tesla is bummed they need to remove that from the CT fact sheet, they obviously pride themselves on performance specs. These specs do matter. Want to not advertise traditionally? You need to put something out that gets articles and word or mouth without ad spend. "Second fastest truck on earth" isn't getting that done.

The new quad motor R1 isn't available and may not be available this year. If you look at Rivian's cash position, needs to ramp PPE for R2 and expanding working capital due to more SKU's = more parts variants that means they may not have enough cash left to make it to early/mid 2025. Moving upmarket with the R1 refresh is a confounding business strategy but let's see how it plays out for them.

Takeaway: the new quad R1 may never exist vs. the Cyberbeast which does very much exist. Today.

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