Waymo will beat Tesla FSD because of LIDAR

[Deleted member 17810]

Funny how you humans think, once your take flight, all that touchy feely shit goes out the window. Especially in helo's. It's all about vision. Think of a vehicle as the same,, you'll catch on quicker.

Are you suggesting that auto pilot systems in aircraft use only vision and not sensors?

e: you're a pilot, you know that aircraft use altimeters.

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[HaulingAss]

For a company that had an operating loss of about $2 billion in the first half of this year according to the NYT, how can they justify a $60B market value?

Because many people think in a linear, simplistic manner, as so well illustrated by a couple of people in this thread. Waymo justifies their valuations by fooling people into thinking they are on the right track. Not everyone can see through the BS. It can never be profitable because a vision only system will be far more adept, in far more situations, and do it at a much lower cost.

This is a dumb thread.

 

[TheMachinewon]

Are you suggesting that auto pilot systems in aircraft use only vision and not sensors?

e: you're a pilot, you know that aircraft use altimeters.

I wasn't talking about the auto pilot systems, I have very deep knowledge of the aircraft systems. I was talking about the Human how it functions. Sight is the most important thing we have, we operate at a very high level with our sight only. My example was that if you put a human in a tin can, you need sight the most to operate it. There's no touchy feely stuff going on.

 

[Ljhughes8]

Same thought for me initially, and now it’s in four cities and growing

That have to be always mapped a Tesla doesn't need that.

 

[jookyone]

You miss my point. To say "there is no AI" presumes that there's a way to prove it. How is cognition achieved, and how do you test for it? If it can't be distinguished from human behavior, does it matter what you label it? Intelligence is on a spectrum. One can only compare one form of intelligence with another.

There is a way to prove it. Are you telling me right now that there is some version of "AI" currently on the market that you would confuse for human? Turing limited intelligence to a single parameter (human communication) and the current models out there being marketed are all generative, mostly communicative so they could pass that test. Nobody thinks there are sentient things derived from anything labeled as AI today that encompass the complexity of being human. If it can't create something that never was, it's not intelligent.

 

[Crissa]

There is a way to prove it. Are you telling me right now that there is some version of "AI" currently on the market that you would confuse for human? Turing limited intelligence to a single parameter (human communication) and the current models out there being marketed are all generative, mostly communicative so they could pass that test. Nobody thinks there are sentient things derived from anything labeled as AI today that encompass the complexity of being human. If it can't create something that never was, it's not intelligent.

You are confusing general intelligence versus specific. Also, yes, there are AI on the market today which can not be reliably told from a selection of random humans within narrow context.

AI is a broad term which involves any artificial selection process. A keyword decision tree is still AI, even if it's very simple... because intelligence is a scale from the smallest single celled organisms to humans. A fly isn't capable of talking like a human, but it is capable of flying, selecting targets, identifying and evading threats. All requiring rudimentary intelligence.

-Crissa

 

[kappaknight]

The reason why the Level 4 autonomous vehicles (series autonomy / no human intervention) need geofencing is to bound the amount of rigorous testing. Cruise Automotive (although controversial) articulated this very well. They built a virtual representation of the entire city of San Francisco and automated over 300 years of self-driving testing in this virtual world. Unfortunately I can no longer find the video on YouTube but if you hunt around you can find it

As to when this will happen, I will admit that I just don't know. The issue with Waymo's method is that cities evolve. When I lived in South San Francisco (a separate town btw) I would commute into The City (the actual San Francisco) in a Lexus LC500 with adaptive cruise control (radar). The advantage of this was that I could intervene frequently in the hot mess that is San Francisco city driving. I'm actually amazed that Waymo and can handle this (curious to hear from any SF Tesla drivers using FSD on Fell or Oak streets, through the Panhandle and the Lower Haight?)

They apparently haven't tested it enough... as another member has mentioned, the cars need to be smarter, not just "see" better.

 

[Cybergirl]

Nobody thinks there are sentient things derived from anything labeled as AI today that encompass the complexity of being human. If it can't create something that never was, it's not intelligent.

Intelligence doesn't have to be at the level of a human being. Sentience is impossible to test deterministically. Is a dog conscious of its existence? Research say yes. How about a squirrel? A robin? A house fly? I would say yes, at some level. It's impossible to know for sure. The same will be true of intelligent machines.

 

[jookyone]

there are AI on the market today which can not be reliably told from a selection of random humans within narrow context

At the extreme of what you are saying, fooling one person, one time, in a narrow context does not make something artificially intelligent.

Intelligence doesn't have to be at the level of a human being

In the context of artificial intelligence as it is defined it absolutely has to be that of a human being.
From the literal definition in Oxford:
"the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence"

 

[Cybergirl]

In the context of artificial intelligence as it is defined it absolutely has to be that of a human being.
From the literal definition in Oxford:
"the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence"

I wrote that intelligence doesn't have to be at the level of a human being. Oxford is defining a field of study, a discipline. Intelligence is intelligence no matter how it's created. It's the ability to learn, understand, and think logically about things, according to Oxford. Are squirrels intelligent? Watch this and tell me.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

I wasn't talking about the auto pilot systems, I have very deep knowledge of the aircraft systems. I was talking about the Human how it functions. Sight is the most important thing we have, we operate at a very high level with our sight only. My example was that if you put a human in a tin can, you need sight the most to operate it. There's no touchy feely stuff going on.

Sight, isnt' the most important thing humans have.

Put that aside, it feels like I'm taking crazy pills, when it's well documented that blind people have heightened senses, specifically around sound.

rhymes with cadar.

 

[Crissa]

Sight, isnt' the most important thing humans have.

Put that aside, it feels like I'm taking crazy pills, when it's well documented that blind people have heightened senses, specifically around sound.

rhymes with cadar.

That's because you are taking crazy pills.

Being more skilled with a sense isn't a heightened sense.

And no, radar has its own problems: Everything in the world is vaguely transparent to it. So recognizing distances and objects with it is even more difficult than with lidar.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 17810]

That's because you are taking crazy pills.

Being more skilled with a sense isn't a heightened sense.

And no, radar has its own problems: Everything in the world is vaguely transparent to it. So recognizing distances and objects with it is even more difficult than with lidar.

-Crissa

Yea it's more difficult, but it's more accurate.

 

[Dahongfei]

Look at Lidar stocks and you’ll know your answer…

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