Waymo will beat Tesla FSD because of LIDAR

[Crissa]

I've said as much every single time. Telsa is opting for a cost benefit over an accuracy and safety benefit.

Visual distance analyzing through AI and ML has not reached a point where it can be as accurate as lidar. Again, not up for discussion.

Unless telsa makes a breakthrough later today (likely not as these things tend to leak) it's just not true that FSD can be as accurate and safe without mathematical data.

Until you accept the reality that the difficulty is not the data, but instead the implementation of a logic tree which makes very few mistakes in application, you're just going to be mocked by pretty much anyone who's programmed software.

You have no idea if the limitation is sensors. Because Tesla isn't showing you the raw data they're using.

And down to the mm data isn't actually needed to drive. There is a limit to how accurate the sensors need to be.

-Crissa

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[Deleted member 17810]

Until you accept the reality that the difficulty is not the data, but instead the implementation of a logic tree which makes very few mistakes in application, you're just going to be mocked by pretty much anyone who's programmed software.

You have no idea if the limitation is sensors. Because Tesla isn't showing you the raw data they're using.

And down to the mm data isn't actually needed to drive. There is a limit to how accurate the sensors need to be.

-Crissa

Tesla themselves had said that the AI can't deal with the lidar information and decided to drop it because it's too complex and slows down the computational system. Then musk has said that visual learning can be more accurate.

Which they have not proven yet.

Mock me all you want, but telsa is literally trying to move to non human programed code.

 

[Crissa]

Tesla themselves had said that the AI can't deal with the lidar information and decided to drop it because it's too complex and slows down the computational system. Then musk has said that visual learning can be more accurate.

Which they have not proven yet.

Mock me all you want, but telsa is literally trying to move to non human programed code.

You're the one saying that their base data isn't accurate enough and that they need lidar. Make up your mind.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 17810]

You're the one saying that their base data isn't accurate enough and that they need lidar. Make up your mind.

-Crissa

What?

Visual interpretation isn't as accurate as lidar.

Telsa thinks they can do it with cameras

They haven't proven it.

 

[HaulingAss]

Mock me all you want, but telsa is literally trying to move to non human programed code.

The existing performance of FSD is ALREADY driven by ~90% non-human programming, it's machine learning.

The sum total of all your comments makes it clear that you do not understand this simple fact.

P.S. I hesitated to inform you of this because, knowing how you think, this new knowledge is likely to make you think FSD is even more of a bad science experiment than you thought it was when you believed it was actually programmed by humans.

 

[REM]

Stopping and going at a four way stop?

Wait are do you think I'm arguing visual vs lidar instead of lidar enhanced visual?

Either way, doesn't matter. I still maintain that lidar adds far too much artifacting to be useful in the long run. If you were to saturate a busy downtown area with lidar equipped cars, you might as well be in a dance club with 1000x strobe lights and 2 hits of acid.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

The existing performance of FSD is ALREADY driven by ~90% non-human programming, it's machine learning.

The sum total of all your comments makes it clear that you do not understand this simple fact.

P.S. I hesitated to inform you of this because, knowing how you think, this new knowledge is likely to make you think FSD is even more of a bad science experiment than you thought it was when you believed it was actually programmed by humans.

I don't think that fsd is bad science or that it's bad, that's something that you and alot of people are attributing to my comments.

fsd is being developed by generative ai. This is known, and being touted as a plus by tesla themselves.

Again, tesla/musk themselves have said that real life metrics(sonar/lidar) are getting in the way of it and that's why the dropped it.

These aren't my opinions, this is what they're doing.

The Dojo apparatus is attempting to wholesale overcome the deficiencies of real world metrics.

This would be fine in a setting for nvidia that's running virtual games, but FSD has actual human consequences that can get people killed.

I have never said that fsd is programmed by humans. I have said that inputting real world telemetric can inform the ai generative learning to make better decisions, but it's costly. And again, Tesla has said the cost/benefit factor isn't worth it.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

Either way, doesn't matter. I still maintain that lidar adds far too much artifacting to be useful in the long run. If you were to saturate a busy downtown area with lidar equipped cars, you might as well be in a dance club with 1000x strobe lights and 2 hits of acid.

That's fine, but until teslas vision can repeatedly demonstrate the vision only camera can detect distances, then it's not safe.

 

[CyberGus]

If you were to saturate a busy downtown area with lidar equipped cars, you might as well be in a dance club with 1000x strobe lights and 2 hits of acid.

LIDAR typically uses infrared light, and is not visible.

Still, it begs the question of interference between multiple LIDAR units, or if some joker with a laser pointer could get you stuck in traffic lol

 

[CyberGus]

fsd is being developed by generative ai. This is known, and being touted as a plus by tesla themselves.

You're using that term incorrectly.

"Generative artificial intelligence, also known as generative AI or gen AI for short, is a type of artificial intelligence (AI) that can create new content and ideas, including conversations, stories, images, videos, and music."

 

[Crissa]

LIDAR typically uses infrared light, and is not visible.

Still, it begs the question of interference between multiple LIDAR units, or if some joke with a laser pointer could get you stuck in traffic lol

Yes, yes it can. Also so can the sun.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 17810]

You're using that term incorrectly.

"Generative artificial intelligence, also known as generative AI or gen AI for short, is a type of artificial intelligence (AI) that can create new content and ideas, including conversations, stories, images, videos, and music."

Unless something has changed recently:

https://hyscaler.com/insights/the-dojo-ai-a-comprehensive-guide-2024/

There's like a 2% chance I'm wrong. We'll see in a few hours, then yall can mock me endlessly.

 

[Crissa]

Unless something has changed recently:

https://hyscaler.com/insights/the-dojo-ai-a-comprehensive-guide-2024/

You'll notice they don't use the word 'generative AI' in the article.

It's also not... Quite right. It's not general AI.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 17810]

You'll notice they don't use the word 'generative AI' in the article.

It's also not... Quite right. It's not general AI.

-Crissa

What do you think dojo is doing with all the visual image to spit back out to the cars to traverse through?

 

[CyberGus]

What do you think dojo is doing with all the visual image to spit back out to the cars to traverse through?

Dojo uses machine-learning to create an AI model, which then runs on the FSD computer. Neither is "generating" new content.

You might make the case that it's "generating" the on-screen visualization, but that's really just a rendering of the data, and is not necessary for FSD to function.

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