Minimum Speed limit sign read as THE SPEED LIMIT (so wrong and dangerous)

[maverick530]

Has anyone else been burned by FSD reading "Minimum Speed" limit signs as THE speed limit and rapidly slowing down? It drives me crazy and I submit a bug report through my car's voice commands every time it happens, but is there anything else we can do to raise awareness of this issue so it gets fixed eventually? Seems like an easy enough thing to train on.

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[scottf200]

Has anyone else been burned by FSD reading "Minimum Speed" limit signs as THE speed limit and rapidly slowing down? It drives me crazy and I submit a bug report through my car's voice commands every time it happens, but is there anything else we can do to raise awareness of this issue so it gets fixed eventually? Seems like an easy enough thing to train on.

100% Had this happen traveling in FL where it seemed to minimum signs are frequent and my TMX would slow down rapidly with people behind me. Pretty annoying.

 

[SCTesla]

If you disengage and wait a second, then re-engage it will revert back to map data and the real SL. That's the issue with sign reading. Happens often in GA.

 

[igs]

Has anyone else been burned by FSD reading "Minimum Speed" limit signs as THE speed limit and rapidly slowing down? It drives me crazy and I submit a bug report through my car's voice commands every time it happens, but is there anything else we can do to raise awareness of this issue so it gets fixed eventually? Seems like an easy enough thing to train on.

If it trains on people slowing down for minimum speed sign then it too will slow down for minimum speed sign. Garbage in garbage out.

 

[furbyland]

If it trains on people slowing down for minimum speed sign then it too will slow down for minimum speed sign. Garbage in garbage out.

If it says "MIN", they should be able to train it to ignore...

 

[igs]

If it says "MIN", they should be able to train it to ignore...

FSD trains on video. Pixels in controls out. They have to find videos of people speeding up for the minimum speed sign instead of slowing down.

 

[SCTesla]

FSD trains on video. Pixels in controls out. They have to find videos of people speeding up for the minimum speed sign instead of slowing down.

That's not what is happening here. It's reading the minimum speed limit as the speed limit and adjusting accordingly. There are some other signs like HWY 25, that it will do the same. It has nothing to do with other drivers and training, it's a mis-label from the vision portion.

 

[igs]

That's not what is happening here. It's reading the minimum speed limit as the speed limit and adjusting accordingly. There are some other signs like HWY 25, that it will do the same. It has nothing to do with other drivers and training, it's a mis-label from the vision portion.

Again, FSD trains on video. There is no more labeling.

Elon: "We never taught it what a car was, or what a person was, or a bicyclist"

 

[SCTesla]

Again, FSD trains on video. There is no more labeling.

Elon: "We never taught it what a car was, or what a person was, or a bicyclist"

You are taking that too literally for all instances. The car still reads speed limits and then publishes them, that's one of the 2 ways they get speed limits (the other is map data). This issue is from misreading.

The model is trained to react to speed limits through recognition. In some states that have a minimum speed, the car is misunderstanding that it isn't a speed limit, just like the HWY 25 or HWY 15 signs that change the speed to 25 or 15, the car is misinterpreting the sign. That's not from users misinterpreting.

What they mean in that video is that there are no longer a hard model for "This is a 70 mph speed limit", but it also opens the car up to misinterpret signs more readily.

This is easy to see logically, but also Green shows that FSD reports this data (speed limit "X"), (Stop sign here) from vision and publishes them to Tesla's maps.

 

[Crissa]

Has anyone else been burned by FSD reading "Minimum Speed" limit signs as THE speed limit and rapidly slowing down? It drives me crazy and I submit a bug report through my car's voice commands every time it happens, but is there anything else we can do to raise awareness of this issue so it gets fixed eventually? Seems like an easy enough thing to train on.

Minimum speed signs are not very common, across the country, and not standard. So it currently can't recognize them, as it's not allowed to actually read the signs. It can only pattern match to a sign database it has.

There are a series of stupid patents expiring in the next couple years blocking cars from doing what every hand held device sold today can do.

-Crissa

 

[igs]

The car still reads speed limits

Did you watch the video? FSD doesn't read signs. It automatically knows what the sign is based on video training.

it's not allowed to actually read the signs.

Thank you.

 

[SCTesla]

Minimum speed signs are not very common, across the country, and not standard. So it currently can't recognize them, as it's not allowed to actually read the signs. It can only pattern match to a sign database it has.

There are a series of stupid patents expiring in the next couple years blocking cars from doing what every hand held device sold today can do.

-Crissa

Mobileye has the patent, Tesla is still reading signs, but yes in a traditional way.

Tesla has been able to recognize, even custom speed limit signs for the last 2+ years, but with V12 the minimum signs or some Highway signs have been recognized as speed limits and slowing the drive. Many thought the "keeping up with the flow of traffic" would resolve it from slamming on brakes from 70 to 45 or in the most extreme case 65 to 25, but it hasn't fully fixed that.

 

[SCTesla]

Did you watch the video? FSD doesn't read signs. It automatically knows what the sign is based on video training.



Thank you.

You didn't read my post. When I say "reading" , I mean recognizing, it's how we process images and it's semantics. They no longer use a traditional model like "this is a 70 mph sign", but they still read the signs. The case with the minimum or highway signs are from the car tagging these as speed limit signs and then publishing it to the car. It's still reading by the definition as recognizing patterns, but not in the way that they were doing it before 2018 because of the Mobileye patent and not in the same way that V11 did with 2,3,4,5,6,7 followed by a 0 or 5 behind hard coded.

I said all this before, but to re-iterate, the car is not slowing down to minimum speed signs and hwy signs because previous drivers have, it's doing it because it's misinterpreting the signs.

 

[Crissa]

Mobileye has the patent, Tesla is still reading signs, but yes in a traditional way.

Tesla has been able to recognize, even custom speed limit signs for the last 2+ years, but ...

It's recognizing the standard font and speed patterns, of which there are only a few... it can't read the rest of the sign which may have instructions on it.

Again, FSD trains on video. There is no more labeling.

Noted, that doesn't mean there's no more labeling: It means there's no more teams labeling most things. There's a big computer doing the labeling for them.

They don't need to tell it what a bicycle is, because it doesn't need to know what a bicycle is - it knows it's a pattern of a moving object, and that's all it needs to know.

But it does need to be able to read and recognize what is and isn't an appropriate sign. Yet that obvious requirement has bullshit patents that Tesla decided to avoid rather than fight.

-Crissa

 

[SCTesla]

It's recognizing the standard font and speed patterns, of which there are only a few... it can't read the rest of the sign which may have instructions on it.


Noted, that doesn't mean there's no more labeling: It means there's no more teams labeling most things. There's a big computer doing the labeling for them.

They don't need to tell it what a bicycle is, because it doesn't need to know what a bicycle is - it knows it's a pattern of a moving object, and that's all it needs to know.

But it does need to be able to read and recognize what is and isn't an appropriate sign. Yet that obvious requirement has bullshit patents that Tesla decided to avoid rather than fight.

-Crissa

Agreed. If it could the entire sign it would see minimum or Highway instead of seeing a pre-trained number and thinking "Speed Limit".

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