Charge me by the ton mile

[Ogre]

No the farmers live by the farm. The long distance commuters move to the city or pay the true cost of driving.

Who pays to relocate them? Is this a forced relacation?

How do you get red-state politicians to agree to forcibly relocating their conveniently Jerrymander-able herd into cities?

I don’t disagree with you… but what you suggest is impossible. Rural poor would rather be rural poor than city poor by a large margin.

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[Crissa]

The train stops just blocks from her door. Great. You might have noticed

It goes where we have the will to put it.

That's still not excuse to argue for car infrastructure to be cheap. You're making a tautology.

-Crissa

 

[Tinker71]

Who pays to relocate them? Is this a forced relacation?

How do you get red-state politicians to agree to forcibly relocating their conveniently Jerrymander-able herd into cities?

I don’t disagree with you… but what you suggest is impossible. Rural poor would rather be rural poor than city poor by a large margin.

This is a gradual process. Voluntary not forced. Just stop or reduce the subsidies and let the free market take over.

I like to use Free Market and Subsidies against the "Conservative Coalition" whenever possible. Currently they have no shame, they are fine with being hypocrites, deflectors and fear mongers. Don't vote for logic....those guys will take your guns, make your daughters get an abortion etc........

 

[Ogre]

This is a gradual process. Voluntary not forced. Just stop or reduce the subsidies and let the free market take over.

I like to use Free Market and Subsidies against the "Conservative Coalition" whenever possible. Currently they have no shame, they are fine with being hypocrites, deflectors and fear mongers. Don't vote for logic....those guys will take your guns, make your daughters get an abortion etc........

I think the bigger problem is housing.

Need large amounts of affordable housing to make any migration from rural areas to work. Lots of resistance to high density housing.

I agree with most everything you say. Just don’t see how we get from here to there.

 

[Crissa]

We need large amounts of housing in any case. We haven't been building to keep up with job growth or birth rate for decades. Especially on the local level.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

We need large amounts of housing in any case. We haven't been building to keep up with job growth or birth rate for decades. Especially on the local level.

-Crissa

NIMBY.

We need new housing NOW!!!!


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.


But not in my neighborhood. Might disturb the view or bring in the wrong kind of people.

Said with full awareness that I live rural, so easy to poke fun at this problem.

 

[Crissa]

...Said with full awareness that I live rural, so easy to poke fun at this problem.

Same. Although I fully supported my neighbors adding/renovating granny units. One has two-three additional units now! Attic unit, basement unit, and over the garage. Two turned their workshops into an additional house. And the one closest built a basement unit (it had bedrooms already).

As long as services support it, I am for it. It's less than a mile walk through the woods to the hardware store and supermarket.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Same. Although I fully supported my neighbors adding/renovating granny units. One has two-three additional units now! Attic unit, basement unit, and over the garage. Two turned their workshops into an additional house. And the one closest built a basement unit (it had bedrooms already).

As long as services support it, I am for it. It's less than a mile walk through the woods to the hardware store and supermarket.

-Crissa

I helped my neighbor put in mother in law quarters.

The big thing is high density, walkable neighborhoods are needed. Rural just isn’t walkable at all. If you are rural you pay the commute tax.

Ideally city centers would remove a lot of driving routes so there would be a ton less driving.

There won’t be any tunnels under Eugene though

 

[Crissa]

It depends on how the rural villages are designed. Ours is an old mill town, so it would be walkable - if the old bridge and apartments existed.

There won’t be any tunnels under Eugene though

Medford had the first raised section on I-5. If they could replace I-5 with a tunnel...

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

It depends on how the rural villages are designed. Ours is an old mill town, so it would be walkable - if the old bridge and apartments existed.


Medford had the first raised section on I-5. If they could replace I-5 with a tunnel...

-Crissa

There are a couple places where tunnels would make sense here, just not sure the problem is big enough to invest in it. Medford the choice was to more or less slice the town in half or go up and over.

 

[Crissa]

There are a couple places where tunnels would make sense here, just not sure the problem is big enough to invest in it. Medford the choice was to more or less slice the town in half or go up and over.

So many towns got sliced in half, tho.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

What is the "true cost" of transport, if robotaxi is cents on the dollar per mile? This is a red herring argument. Companies are interested in semi for the same reason.

With roads you need to factor in "Time of Use" (TOU). Currently all traffic congestion is either from an accident or that everyone travels at the same time. Simply use the road at better times, this is self inflicted by everyone being progamed to run a 9-5 shift, which is uneccessary.

This is also where robotaxi shines in that it will promote that one car does more trips at different times of the day that results in less cars on the road at the same time and therefore congestion. Further higher average velocities with higher traffic density (slipstreaming) plus marginal traffic incidents will essentially get rid of stop and go "traffic waves" (look it up). A German study onto radar based cruise control calculated that if just 15% of cars had radar cruise there would be no stop and go traffic waves.

As for urban areas their hay day has come and gone. There is just no point to them anymore and they will disappear in a generation or two once 90% of jobs are automated and "commuting" becomes one of those crazy things we did in the olden days where we also got dino juice from the gas station. Look at what same day delivery is doing to traffic numbers. One UPS van replaces 30-50 car trips to the store, cheaper, faster and more efficient and convenient.

The point is we as citizens will travel predominantly for pleasure, no longer for necessity. That means less traffic overall and with higher speed and less traffic you need less roads and not more. We're just crazy good at underutilised transport infrastructure!

 

[fritter63]

No the farmers live by the farm. The long distance commuters move to the city or pay the true cost of driving.

For now they do. But once we move to vertical farming and hydroponics (for a number of compelling reasons), the food production will be where it's needed, mostly in the cities.

 

[Tinker71]

What is the "true cost" of transport, if robotaxi is cents on the dollar per mile? This is a red herring argument. Companies are interested in semi for the same reason.

With roads you need to factor in "Time of Use" (TOU). Currently all traffic congestion is either from an accident or that everyone travels at the same time. Simply use the road at better times, this is self inflicted by everyone being progamed to run a 9-5 shift, which is uneccessary.

This is also where robotaxi shines in that it will promote that one car does more trips at different times of the day that results in less cars on the road at the same time and therefore congestion. Further higher average velocities with higher traffic density (slipstreaming) plus marginal traffic incidents will essentially get rid of stop and go "traffic waves" (look it up). A German study onto radar based cruise control calculated that if just 15% of cars had radar cruise there would be no stop and go traffic waves.

As for urban areas their hay day has come and gone. There is just no point to them anymore and they will disappear in a generation or two once 90% of jobs are automated and "commuting" becomes one of those crazy things we did in the olden days where we also got dino juice from the gas station. Look at what same day delivery is doing to traffic numbers. One UPS van replaces 30-50 car trips to the store, cheaper, faster and more efficient and convenient.

The point is we as citizens will travel predominantly for pleasure, no longer for necessity. That means less traffic overall and with higher speed and less traffic you need less roads and not more. We're just crazy good at underutilised transport infrastructure!

Awesome post. I love the time of day charge concept. Why build roads for peak rush hour when we can spread out the use? We have the technology.

The death of suburbia is also an interesting concept.

I don't think we are quite there with the UPS trucks. If we consolidated Amazon/Fedex/USPS/UPS and got down to 2-3 deliveries per week maybe.

 

[Tinker71]

What is the "true cost" of transport, if robotaxi is cents on the dollar per mile? This is a red herring argument. Companies are interested in semi for the same reason.

With roads you need to factor in "Time of Use" (TOU). Currently all traffic congestion is either from an accident or that everyone travels at the same time. Simply use the road at better times, this is self inflicted by everyone being progamed to run a 9-5 shift, which is uneccessary.

This is also where robotaxi shines in that it will promote that one car does more trips at different times of the day that results in less cars on the road at the same time and therefore congestion. Further higher average velocities with higher traffic density (slipstreaming) plus marginal traffic incidents will essentially get rid of stop and go "traffic waves" (look it up). A German study onto radar based cruise control calculated that if just 15% of cars had radar cruise there would be no stop and go traffic waves.

As for urban areas their hay day has come and gone. There is just no point to them anymore and they will disappear in a generation or two once 90% of jobs are automated and "commuting" becomes one of those crazy things we did in the olden days where we also got dino juice from the gas station. Look at what same day delivery is doing to traffic numbers. One UPS van replaces 30-50 car trips to the store, cheaper, faster and more efficient and convenient.

The point is we as citizens will travel predominantly for pleasure, no longer for necessity. That means less traffic overall and with higher speed and less traffic you need less roads and not more. We're just crazy good at underutilised transport infrastructure!

I always wanted to make a tow truck that could pick up a car from any angle even reach across the divider. It would consist of a boom with inflatable cushions that could grab the vehicle just below the doors. Then place it on the flatbed.

What would be the value in cleaning up an accident in half the time?

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