“New” Cybertruck Photos with vault cover closed

[Tinker71]

Its tough to imagine that they would go through the effort of making the structural packs without the castings to attach to. If I were building a prototype (and i had a gazillion dollars) I wouldn't focus on the stuff people couldn't see as much. That structural pack relies on the unibody. It would give them more flexibility to mess with the body if they just threw it on a frame for the prototype. kind of like dealing with traditionally reinforced concrete vs. post tension.

Exactly, I doubt the early prototypes could achieve the advertised loads, acceleration and range.

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[Ogre]

They probably do have structural packs for the CT. They wouldn't have to fill it completely with 4680s. They only need, say, 1/3rd the total 4680s, and fill the rest of the pack with structural-equivalent dummy batteries. They don't need range they need a moving platform that allows then a few hours of data and testing every day.

But I do wonder how they're simulating the castings. I suppose you'd just hand assemble the 90-140 parts (front and rear) that the single casting would eventually replace, right?

I mentioned it above, they could make 2 6k ton castings and bond them.

I was thinking about the dummy cells myself. I’m not sure if they would generate the power the full pack would.

 

[Tinker71]

They probably do have structural packs for the CT. They wouldn't have to fill it completely with 4680s. They only need, say, 1/3rd the total 4680s, and fill the rest of the pack with structural-equivalent dummy batteries. They don't need range they need a moving platform that allows then a few hours of data and testing every day.

But I do wonder how they're simulating the castings. I suppose you'd just hand assemble the 90-140 parts (front and rear) that the single casting would eventually replace, right?

I bet they could make the cast in 2 or more sections and bond them together.

 

[Ogre]

Exactly, I doubt the early prototypes could achieve the advertised loads, acceleration and range.

I just don’t quite understand why they would go to the trouble of building these multi-million dollar test trucks if they didn’t make them as close to final as possible. What would the benefit of getting 70% of the way there? The pack is going to have to be custom regardless. The front and rear assemblies likewise.

What is the point of a 70% Cybertruck? How does that help testing? Is the cost of making a non-structural pack with 2170s that much less?

 

[Bill906]

I just don’t quite understand why they would go to the trouble of building these multi-million dollar test trucks if they didn’t make them as close to final as possible. What would the benefit of getting 70% of the way there? The pack is going to have to be custom regardless. The front and rear assemblies likewise.

What is the point of a 70% Cybertruck? How does that help testing? Is the cost of making a non-structural pack with 2170s that much less?

I'm guessing they built the multi million dollar prototypes to compare and contrast how the BAW looks on them.

 

[Dusty]

I doubt they'd take a GigaP from Y production and retool for a few CT castings then retool and calibrate the press to rejoin Y production.

They can test everything above the motors to completion without castings. That would explain the lack of 4-wheel steering action. And when the press arrives they can then finish out the things they need full castings for, like suspension and steering.

I'd wager that when you see the GP you'll start to see real off-road testing of CTs.

 

[anionic1]

It’s possible. But what are they testing then? Without the structural pack any kind of performance metrics are worthless, they would be testing an entirely different vehicle.

They could make 2 castings for the rear and 1 for the front, and bond the 2 rear castings together the way they used to put the rear end of the Model 3/Y together. They could get the truck pretty damned close to final that way.

Maybe I don’t understand the point of having a test mule.

They didn't do dual bolted castings on a unibody frame. My bet is that there is a steel frame under these CT prototypes. The only difference the frame would make in the prototype is weight. They could offset that in a lot of ways. They probably don't have the full 100 kWh plus battery pack in there either. We haven't really seen them pushing the CT too hard either.

I doubt they are testing too many performance metrics. It seems like more fitment and calibration stuff that they have been doing. Especially with the comments about changing up the number of motors and type of suspension and rear steering. Are they going to keep making new castings with the correct attachment points for all those changes. No. And they aren't welding to an aluminum casting. A steel frame gives them way more flexibility on a prototype to make changes and move mounting points. The final CT design will be very refined and not allow nearly as much modification as a traditional steel frame.

I used the example of working with a traditionally reinforced concrete structure vs. a post tension structure before. The final version of the CT will be like that PT structure and wont allow for nearly as much modification. So my guess is its a traditional frame on the CT truck for now.

Once we see a structural model like the model y at giga Berlin I will believe that one of the trucks may have it. Maybe we will see one at the grand opening in Austin!

 

[JollyRoger]

My bet is that there is a steel frame under these CT prototypes.

Unlikely that they would engineer something completely different from what they are prototyping.

 

[Ogre]

I doubt they'd take a GigaP from Y production and retool for a few CT castings then retool and calibrate the press to rejoin Y production.

They wouldn’t have to. They have multiple idle presses right now in Texas, Berlin, and I think even in Fremont. It is also possible it is made out of just straight machined aluminum.

The idea that they made a custom bottom assembly that isn’t fairly close to the final doesn’t make any sense. It needs to be structurally sound to test much of anything. It would take a bunch of engineering to make a one-off custom front and rear assembly, and a non-structural pack, plus the frame to support it along with the body.

How does this make more sense then just making as close as possible to final?

 

[Dusty]

It's unlikely that they'll wait and not test anything until the GP arrives just because it isn't cast 100% the way they'd produce it. Do we know they aren't using Model Y presses? The reason they gave for no 2022 CT is that they didn't want to disturb MY production.

Like I said, you can test a ton of stuff while waiting for the GP and production castings. You don't need castings to work on the tests we've seen like driver recognition software, tunneau testing, motor output, wiper and windshield design.... etc.

There's a reason we haven't seen it towing, terrain/articulation tests, or speed bump tests like the Model Y... those are all suspension related. Hell, even the wheels and tires are a mix mash of second hand gear that clearly aren't going to be on the final model.

 

[Tinker71]

I just don’t quite understand why they would go to the trouble of building these multi-million dollar test trucks if they didn’t make them as close to final as possible. What would the benefit of getting 70% of the way there? The pack is going to have to be custom regardless. The front and rear assemblies likewise.

What is the point of a 70% Cybertruck? How does that help testing? Is the cost of making a non-structural pack with 2170s that much less?

I am not sure what we are debating here. I don't think the DM at reveal had a 300 mile range or Tesla could put 3500 lbs. in the back and run the off road course. It was a shiny but functional prototype and it served its purpose. It didn't have 4680 or a cast frame assembly.

Obviously the closer we get to production the closer the fabrication methods and materials are to what will actually be done.

 

[Ogre]

There's a reason we haven't seen it towing, terrain/articulation tests, or speed bump tests like the Model Y... those are all suspension related. Hell, even the wheels and tires are a mix mash of second hand gear that clearly aren't going to be on the final model.

We see a small fraction of what is going on. Like a sort of quasi curated tour of Cybertruck development. We see what Tesla thinks is acceptable for the public to see. Whether we see any particular test or not has less to do with what they are testing and more to do with what they want us to see.

 

[Crissa]

I just don’t quite understand why they would go to the trouble of building these multi-million dollar test trucks if they didn’t make them as close to final as possible. What would the benefit of getting 70% of the way there? The pack is going to have to be custom regardless. The front and rear assemblies likewise.

What is the point of a 70% Cybertruck? How does that help testing? Is the cost of making a non-structural pack with 2170s that much less?

Depends on the part you're testing. There's one with 70% of its body on the test track...

But the casting is just a way to make a part. It doesn't do anything special structurally except be a little lighter. They don't need it here.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

I am not sure what we are debating here. I don't think the DM at reveal had a 300 mile range or Tesla could put 3500 lbs. in the back and run the off road course. It was a shiny but functional prototype and it served its purpose. It didn't have 4680 or a cast frame assembly.

Obviously the closer we get to production the closer the fabrication methods and materials are to what will actually be done.

I think we’re seeing a fairly complete/ near final version of the truck.

That simple. Something as close as possible to the gigacasting. Some kind of structural pack (maybe incomplete), the “exoskeleton”, etc etc.

Not something which is just visually similar, but something which is very close to final. Anionic was suggesting there was some kind of ladder frame or something rather than a structural pack.

To me that makes no sense.

 

[Ogre]

Depends on the part you're testing. There's one with 70% of its body on the test track...

But the casting is just a way to make a part. It doesn't do anything special structurally except be a little lighter. They don't need it here.

-Crissa

The lack of or presence of a structural pack isn’t just another way to make a part. It is fundamentally a different thing.

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