I just got a speeding ticket in FSD Hurry Mode for 9 miles over.

[georgek43]

Hear! Hear! It will be interesting to see how long the "go fast and break things" mentality will last until petitions, lost sales, accidents, and/or class action suits roll it back, or they get smart with their PR risk assessment and do it themselves before they set back FSD another couple years. It's sad that they don't realize they *could* have it both ways by simply rolling back to scroll wheel "speed never to exceed" functionality (including the option to hit the accelerator to temporarily exceed the set speed) and set the profile elsewhere. It seems clear from this discussion that there will be plenty of folks who choose not to set a speed limit. I personally like the Mad Max setting in traffic because it's the only profile that does not leave enough space for people to cut in front of you, effectively moving you backwards in traffic while also changing lanes to advance when opportunities availed. As soon as you get out of traffic, however, there's no limit and it camps in the "keep right except to pass" lane (even if no traffic in the right 3 lanes) making you a triple (doge machine, speeding, and camping in the passing lane) target for tickets. In my initial testing in Feb, chill = speed limit, standard = 110% (60->67 of SL, hurry = 120% (60->72), and mad max no limit I was willing to test (110% on I5 in WA can attract blue lights, though the farther you go S on I5 the faster you can go). Lately, however, I've seen 120% in standard. I haven't kept track of versions. I just can't rely on FSD. Another thing they could enable is turning off FSD without stopping so you can switch to good 'ol adaptive cc when FSD needs more supervision than just old school driving.

I agree 100%. Keep the ‘speed profile‘ system for those that want it (it does work well in heavy traffic) but add in a ‘driver max’ or something that reverts to the scroll wheel and choice of assertiveness. There’s plenty of us that want to control speed precisely. I’m sure they could accommodate with programming (I’m a retired programmer) as they had already built the module to do so in FSD13.

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[HaulingAss]

I agree 100%. Keep the ‘speed profile‘ system for those that want it (it does work well in heavy traffic) but add in a ‘driver max’ or something that reverts to the scroll wheel and choice of assertiveness. There’s plenty of us that want to control speed precisely. I’m sure they could accommodate with programming (I’m a retired programmer) as they had already built the module to do so in FSD13.

You can control the speed yourself as precisely as well as your foot and brain are capable. But that requires steering it yourself.

It's in the name, Full-Self Driving, Supervised. If you don't want it making the driving decisions, then don't use it.

 

[meinnovations]

Tesla could make FSD rigidly adhere to the speed limit at all times

Who here is condoning that? I see no one. WRT (uncited) studies of differential speeds (with the implication that speeds below the speed limit) being the cause of accidents so Tesla is doing the right thing by putting no limits on speed and not allowing drivers to put limits, you're disproving your own point. Correct me if I'm wrong, @LDRHAWKE, but I understand you posted because of your frustration of not being able to set the speed that other drivers were driving over the speed limit, not an algorithm that does not take into account the context of the situation (i.e. causing differential speeds). @HaulingAss, if you're in western WA, you know going 75 (I've seen 84 in tests with mad max *in traffic* before I turned it off) in a 60 on I5 will eventually earn you a meeting with officer friendly. Not sure if you've driven on the other end of I5 but there is where you will hear "whining of a 747" if you're doing 65. Tesla *can* have it both ways by providing the option to set your max speed while also using profiles for those who wish to be safe and/or avoid tickets while the mad max's can exercise their freedom to be Tesla's guinea pigs. Selfishly, I like to set the max in my Rivian to 75+ to draft behind professional semi-drivers who know how much they can speed in their locale without being ticketed. Adaptive cc and lane assist work perfectly until you hit a hill. If you want to go around, simply invoke the directional and change lanes. Rivian will re-invoke cc when you're back in the lane. Rivian for the win in this scenario, but no FUSC. I have not found how to do that in FSD. Hurry almost does it but goes around and then camps in the passing lane at 120%, begging for a ticket. Standard gives too much space for people to pull in front of you, effectively pushing you backwards in traffic. The option to set a top speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs.

 

[HaulingAss]

Who here is condoning that? I see no one.

I'm not going to name names, but if you haven't seen anyone suggest that FSD should adhere rigidly to the speed limits, then you haven't been reading very well.

WRT (uncited) studies of differential speeds (with the implication that speeds below the speed limit) being the cause of accidents so Tesla is doing the right thing by putting no limits on speed and not allowing drivers to put limits, you're disproving your own point.

I didn't imply that speeds below the speed limit were the issue, it's speeds far below the speed at which the traffic is actually going. This is what the studies I referred to looked at. They found it was safer to go with the flow of traffic, even if that traffic was exceeding the posted speed limit.

@HaulingAss, if you're in western WA, you know going 75 (I've seen 84 in tests with mad max *in traffic* before I turned it off) in a 60 on I5 will eventually earn you a meeting with officer friendly.

This is non-sensical! Why would any FSD operator put it in Mad Max mode on the highway if their concern was getting a speeding ticket? This is why Tesla lets FSD users choose between Sloth and Mad Max. I don't see the problem.

Not sure if you've driven on the other end of I5 but there is where you will hear "whining of a 747" if you're doing 65. Tesla *can* have it both ways by providing the option to set your max speed while also using profiles for those who wish to be safe and/or avoid tickets while the mad max's can exercise their freedom to be Tesla's guinea pigs. Selfishly, I like to set the max in my Rivian to 75+ to draft behind professional semi-drivers who know how much they can speed in their locale without being ticketed. Adaptive cc and lane assist work perfectly until you hit a hill. If you want to go around, simply invoke the directional and change lanes. Rivian will re-invoke cc when you're back in the lane. Rivian for the win in this scenario, but no FUSC. I have not found how to do that in FSD. Hurry almost does it but goes around and then camps in the passing lane at 120%, begging for a ticket. Standard gives too much space for people to pull in front of you, effectively pushing you backwards in traffic. The option to set a top speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs.

Tesla is not developing FSD to meet your desire to draft behind speeding semi trucks, or whatever your specialized use case of the moment is, if you want to do that, you still can, you just need to take the controls yourself. This is Tesla's FSD development effort, not yours, they have a different concept of what they are developing than you have. If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't use it. No one is stopping you from starting your company to develop it just how YOU would like it. Have you considered meeting your own needs without relying on others billions of dollars of time and investment?

It's unclear why you think Tesla has to develop FSD to YOUR preferences when they already know what they are trying to achieve. You can certainly pay to join them for the right to ride along, but don't think that also gives you the right to re-direct their development efforts to your personal preferences. I shouldn't have to say this, but the amount of entitlement you display is stunningly unbecoming. It's as if you haven't even considered that you don't have that right.

I'm just glad to be along for the ride!

 

[meinnovations]

Who here is condoning that? I see no one. WRT (uncited) studies of differential speeds (with the implication that speeds below the speed limit) being the cause of accidents so Tesla is doing the right thing by putting no limits on speed and not allowing drivers to put limits, you're disproving your own point. Correct me if I'm wrong, @LDRHAWKE, but I understand you posted because of your frustration of not being able to set the speed that other drivers were driving over the speed limit, not an algorithm that does not take into account the context of the situation (i.e. causing differential speeds). @HaulingAss, if you're in western WA, you know going 75 (I've seen 84 in tests with mad max *in traffic* before I turned it off) in a 60 on I5 will eventually earn you a meeting with officer friendly. Not sure if you've driven on the other end of I5 but there is where you will hear "whining of a 747" if you're doing 65. Tesla *can* have it both ways by providing the option to set your max speed while also using profiles for those who wish to be safe and/or avoid tickets while the mad max's can exercise their freedom to be Tesla's guinea pigs. Selfishly, I like to set the max in my Rivian to 75+ to draft behind professional semi-drivers who know how much they can speed in their locale without being ticketed. Adaptive cc and lane assist work perfectly until you hit a hill. If you want to go around, simply invoke the directional and change lanes. Rivian will re-invoke cc when you're back in the lane. Rivian for the win in this scenario, but no FUSC. I have not found how to do that in FSD. Hurry almost does it but goes around and then camps in the passing lane at 120%, begging for a ticket. Standard gives too much space for people to pull in front of you, effectively pushing you backwards in traffic. The option to set a top speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs.

I'm not going to name names, but if you haven't seen anyone suggest that FSD should adhere rigidly to the speed limits, then you haven't been reading very well.




I didn't imply that speeds below the speed limit were the issue, it's speeds far below the speed at which the traffic is actually going. This is what the studies I referred to looked at. They found it was safer to go with the flow of traffic, even if that traffic was exceeding the posted speed limit.



This is non-sensical! Why would any FSD operator put it in Mad Max mode on the highway if their concern was getting a speeding ticket? This is why Tesla lets FSD users choose between Sloth and Mad Max. I don't see the problem.



Tesla is not developing FSD to meet your desire to draft behind speeding semi trucks, or whatever your specialized use case of the moment is, if you want to do that, you still can, you just need to take the controls yourself. This is Tesla's FSD development effort, not yours, they have a different concept of what they are developing than you have. If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't use it. No one is stopping you from starting your company to develop it just how YOU would like it. Have you considered meeting your own needs without relying on others billions of dollars of time and investment?

It's unclear why you think Tesla has to develop FSD to YOUR preferences when they already know what they are trying to achieve. You can certainly pay to join them for the right to ride along, but don't think that also gives you the right to re-direct their development efforts to your personal preferences. I shouldn't have to say this, but the amount of entitlement you display is stunningly unbecoming. It's as if you haven't even considered that you don't have that right.

I'm just glad to be along for the ride!

OK, you think I'm talking past you and vice versa. It's the state of the (dis)United States. Do you disagree on this, " The option to set a top speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs?"

 

[eswimm]

It doesn't matter how safe FSD is, it has to give the driver the ability to set a maximum speed. Until Tesla starts paying the speeding tickets, it doesn't matter how safe FSD thinks it is driving. In NC, speeding over 80 MPH can result in automatic license suspension.

Personally, I'd like to see options for at least maximum speed and maximum offset.

 

[HaulingAss]

OK, you think I'm talking past you and vice versa. It's the state of the (dis)United States. Do you disagree on this, " The option to set a top speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs?"

My point is, that's not for you or me to mandate because we are not the owners/developers of the technology. If allowing users to set a top speed, irrespective of the profile being used met the needs of the people making this technology available to user like you and I, then they would likely have already done it. The fact that they previously allowed FSD users to do that, but removed the ability, strongly suggests they had a good reason to do that:

I suspect it's important that the AI be able to chose the driving speed in every scenario for reasons of getting through the march of 9's. This provides fleet consistency and makes the accident statistics over time have a lower level of uncertainty which can lead to a more straightforward approval to Unsupervised FSD. Data matters and the fewer variables the better. You should be thankful they still allow users to customize the behavior with one of five profiles. I'm a logical person and am confident they didn't remove that ability to punish you or anyone else, they did it because it gets them closer to their goal of unsupervised more quickly and with less resources. It's an unbelievably huge endeavor that I think many cannot appreciate because they don't have enough understanding of the development process.

I'm still just amazed at the sense of entitlement people have, thinking that Supervised FSD is the endpoint and the development process should put their personal needs above that of the finished product. Also shocking to me is the arrogance of those who assume that allowing every user to set a different maximum speed wouldn't impact the teams ability to continually improve FSD towards Unsupervised. You don't know that because you are not one of the FSD Team building the technology. Tesla made it clear years ago that the goal is unsupervised and those who wanted to help fund this herculean effort could come along for the ride.

And that's exactly what I'm doing. I love it. You are free to not buy into it and let those who are interested in helping out do the slightly untidy messy work. Nobody is forcing you into it.

 

[HaulingAss]

It doesn't matter how safe FSD is, it has to give the driver the ability to set a maximum speed. Until Tesla starts paying the speeding tickets, it doesn't matter how safe FSD thinks it is driving. In NC, speeding over 80 MPH can result in automatic license suspension.

Personally, I'd like to see options for at least maximum speed and maximum offset.

It's still in the Supervised (driver assistance) phase. If you don't want it to go over 80 mph, don't let it. You are still in control.

 

[The Tumbler]

There’s a solution.

 

[REM]

I'm still just amazed at the sense of entitlement people have, thinking that Supervised FSD is the endpoint and the development process should put their personal needs above that of the finished product. Also shocking to me is the arrogance of those who assume that allowing every user to set a different maximum speed wouldn't impact the teams ability to continually improve FSD towards Unsupervised.

absolutely nailed it. the recent addition of tagging exactly why you have a disengagement proves this point too. Tesla really needs accurate edge case data to further improve the model.

it's always funny to see the isolated opinions of people who have never worked in any kind of product engineering whatsoever.

 

[Cybertruck2024]

You can control the speed yourself as precisely as well as your foot and brain are capable. But that requires steering it yourself.

It's in the name, Full-Self Driving, Supervised. If you don't want it making the driving decisions, then don't use it.

I actually am in agreement with you for once. The product isn't good, so I don’t use it. I try every now and then, get frustrated it is a broken product, and turn it off.

 

[meinnovations]

My point is, that's not for you or me to mandate because we are not the owners/developers of the technology. If allowing users to set a top speed, irrespective of the profile being used met the needs of the people making this technology available to user like you and I, then they would likely have already done it. The fact that they previously allowed FSD users to do that, but removed the ability, strongly suggests they had a good reason to do that:

I suspect it's important that the AI be able to chose the driving speed in every scenario for reasons of getting through the march of 9's. This provides fleet consistency and makes the accident statistics over time have a lower level of uncertainty which can lead to a more straightforward approval to Unsupervised FSD. Data matters and the fewer variables the better. You should be thankful they still allow users to customize the behavior with one of five profiles. I'm a logical person and am confident they didn't remove that ability to punish you or anyone else, they did it because it gets them closer to their goal of unsupervised more quickly and with less resources. It's an unbelievably huge endeavor that I think many cannot appreciate because they don't have enough understanding of the development process.

I'm still just amazed at the sense of entitlement people have, thinking that Supervised FSD is the endpoint and the development process should put their personal needs above that of the finished product. Also shocking to me is the arrogance of those who assume that allowing every user to set a different maximum speed wouldn't impact the teams ability to continually improve FSD towards Unsupervised. You don't know that because you are not one of the FSD Team building the technology. Tesla made it clear years ago that the goal is unsupervised and those who wanted to help fund this herculean effort could come along for the ride.

And that's exactly what I'm doing. I love it. You are free to not buy into it and let those who are interested in helping out do the slightly untidy messy work. Nobody is forcing you into it.

Do you agree or disagree with this: The option to set a max speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs?

 

[HaulingAss]

Do you agree or disagree with this: The option to set a max speed, irrespective of profile, would meet everyone's needs?

Obviously I disagree with that, what is wrong with you? If it met the needs of the FSD Team working on full unsupervised, they would put that option in there. They removed it so obviously it doesn't meet their needs.

Comprende?

 

[TexasDev]

Admittedly didn't read the thread.
But who does know to put it in "chill" when you hit towns?

1 day after buying my CT it was obvious to do that.

 

[Alphamax]

Bring back the scroll wheel speed set.

There’s a ton of justifying Tesla’s decision to remove the scroll wheel speed set. It’s total BS. Speed profiles are a huge fail- I don’t care about Tesla testing autonomy- they can do that in their own vehicles. I do not want to be a test dummy while their system ‘learns.’

Bring back the scroll wheel speed set.

Speed profiles are dangerous and quite probably illegal- they certainly operate the vehicle illegally on a regular basis. I don’t suppose Tesla offered to pay your speeding fine and hire an attorney to clear your points?

Bring back the scroll wheel speed set.

Again, the speed profiles are dangerous, nerve racking, stupid, require far too much driver input and you still cannot precisely manage speed. The AI certainly cannot manage speed in any safe and legal way, AND IT NEVER WILL because the speed limit data in incorrect in so many locations. It needs a driver override. It had an excellent one in FSD13. ‘Difficult learning’ is no excuse for bad programming and really bad management decisions.

Bring back the scroll wheel speed set.

Speed control works great in FSD13. All the improvements of FSD14 are way overshadowed by the abject failure of speed management in the ludicrous speed profile system. It’s over complicated and broke a working system that did not need improvement. They ‘fixed’ something that wasn’t broken.

Bring back the scroll wheel speed set.

AMEN

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