🥊 Them's fighting words! Ford's Farley disses Cybertruck: 'I make trucks for real people who do real work'

[firsttruck]

The Cybertruck won't be eating any immediate sales from anyone for many years.
.....

On day one of Cybertruck 2019 Nov reveal Cybertruck already Osbourned affected some sales from Ford/GM/RAM pickups. Since then it has Osbourned more.

Once Cybertruck has been delivered to 5K customers and it is obvious to previous doubters that Tesla is going to seriously ramping volume of Cybertruck shipments the Osbourne effect on Ford/GM/RAM pickups sales will be significant even if total Cybertruck is stil low in the ramp. It will not take many years for Ford/GM/RAM pickups sales to be affected.

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[intimidator]

On day one of Cybertruck 2019 Nov reveal Cybertruck already Osbourned affected some sales from Ford/GM/RAM pickups. Since then it has Osbourned more.

Once Cybertruck has been delivered to 5K customers and it is obvious to previous doubters that Tesla is going to seriously ramping volume of Cybertruck shipments the Osbourne effect on Ford/GM/RAM pickups sales will be significant even if total Cybertruck is stil low in the ramp. It will not take many years for Ford/GM/RAM pickups sales to be affected.

The Osborne effect is more of an effect when you can get a product within a year or so.
As a November 2019 reservation holder, I don't expect to get my Cybertuck until late 2025.

NEW potential buyers of the CyberTruck will be waiting, IMO, until probably 2027 depending on how gentle the inital ramp in 2024 goes. Tesla has a lot of folks on the waiting list to satisfy in 2025 and 2026.

 

[Arctic_White]

And just think of how much more respect Tesla will earn when they still meet their targeted consumer price. Even Elon said it was very hard to make it affordable... But, he didn't say it was impossible, only for the competitors.

$100K is far from affordable and it is really hard for me to believe that nonsense. I will eat crow if I need to, but instead I think I will have a Filet Mignon when the price/specs are announced.

I don't really care if the initial price is $69K or $99K. What I do care about the most, however, is the range.

I'd be more disappointed if it's $69K and only 300 miles of range than if it was $99K with 500+ miles of range.

Will Tesla split the difference and introduce a 420-mile, quad-motor for $79,990? This seems like the most likely case.

 

[Baldey]

i would say that a 420 mile range is a near-certainty, but the Silverado's at 450.. Musk did kind of try to temper our range expectations a bit, by saying they need to find a balance of not carrying around a giant heavy battery everywhere.. But i'm still thinking he's going to want to be the top dog on range

So maybe 500+ miles for the tri motor long range, and 420 for the standard version I don't think quad motor is coming yet, that will probably be the plaid powertrain to follow on a refresh. Achieving 500 miles of range seems easy, considering it will have twice the capacity of a MY, without much extra weight..

 

[sigintel]

CEO of Ford says rival truck won't appeal to Ford's customer base. What a shock.

Lol. Gapped from stoplight will fix that REEEAL quick.

 

[Challeco]

Either we’re talking past each other somewhere, or you’re stroking out and should seek med attention

My ‘18 F150, 4x4, SCREW EPA: 19/24/21, I hit 20 average all day long driving like I mean it

And here’s a EcoBoost mileage thread from back in 2019 with a dozen people reporting real world figures better than mine

If it were worth the time (it’s not) ai could show you the same regarding each other manufacturers fuel-conscious offerings (eg not V8 Hemi’s).

And regardless, this conversation was focused on drivers with unusually high fuel bills due to high percentages of Hwy miles in commutes.

My ‘18 easily got 23mph real world in hwy driving, and the thread linked above have others with the same or better.




Of course not. That wasn’t the discussion at hand.

Nor is that point any different for a BEV truck

At the end of the day, this is a worthless birdwalk away from the point that was being made:

Yes, people factor in fuel savings when buying a BEV. But no, for anyone who understands money, that factor alone is not sufficient to cause people considering changing vehicles to flock to buying brand new BEV trucks, because there are lower all-in cost options available (eg buying used, deciding not to change vehicles due to cost afterall, etc.)

And if you instead want to drill down to the sub-group that has decided to buy a new truck, who are considering an ICE vs BEV alternative their decision will be based primarily on the headline purchase price comparison between similarly equipped vehicles.

In this interest rate environment, deltas in loan principle can quickly eat into any otherwise obvious operational cost advantage of BEVs.

Which is why people around here have been banging the following gong: to have any feel for the CTs penetration into the broader ICE truck market, you first have to know MSRP

If the CT has a ~$40K option and in fact produces a lot of this variant, the new-buy ICE truck market will get eaten into considerably, and the overall ICE truck market (eg including used) somewhat

If instead for the near/medium term, the CT has only a $70K variant readily available, it will make very little dent in overall new-buy ICE truck marker, and near zero in overall ICE truck market (eg including used)

To this last point, someone responded fuel savings will fix that. They’re wrong.

Maybe it's because I am tired. Maybe it's because I just realized that this is pointless. I live the comparison between ICE and EV. I did the math, I considered used, I considered new, and even though I do ALL of my maintenance at my own shop without charging myself labor, I considered the real world all inclusive costs, including interest rates. I will never go back to ICE. I may keep the car and truck I built with my own hands, for sentimentality. But for efficiency, no. For cost, not even because I own them. For power, absolutely NOT. for speed?! Hell no. For comfort? No, and I like Ford's seat cushion design. Basically, I can tell you are guessing. You use averages, and estimates, and you guess. I did too, at first. Then I realized that I was wrong. I am better for taking the chance on EV.

 

[Diehard]

Interesting interview with Farley. 3 weeks old, 45 minutes. If you are looking for blood, you may be disappointed but if you can run it in the background while doing something useful, it could be educational.

 

[AlDente]

Yeah, Ol prep schooled, Connecticut raised Jim Farley know a lot about real people who do real work in trucks. He's a true "made man" of the people.

Although he bares a striking resemblance to him, and has similar motivational speaker talents, he doesn't share his cousin Chris's sense of humor and certainly never "lived in a van down by the river".

 

[cvalue13]

Yeah, Ol prep schooled, Connecticut raised Jim Farley know a lot about real people who do real work in trucks. He's a true "made man" of the people.

Although he bares a striking resemblance to him, and has similar motivational speaker talents, he doesn't share his cousin Chris's sense of humor and certainly never "lived in a van down by the river".

As compared to what other major auto CEO’s, including Musk?

And while your point is taken, one arguable differentiation: you might look into Farley’s grandfather, who started working at Ford in 1913 and built Model T’s under Henry Ford.

Farley may have an outsized feeling of connection to Ford and it’s history.

But with that family lineage and history I suspect few of us wouldn’t

“
By the time Farley was 5 years old, he was being groomed by his grandfather, Emmet Tracy, an early employee of company founder Henry Ford. Tracy went on to run an auto parts business and a car dealership in Grosse Pointe.

While other grandparents read Dr. Seuss, Tracy sat down with issues of Automotive News when his grandson visited during Christmas and summer breaks. The two would drive past automotive landmarks, including the Packard Plant, Ford's Piquette Street Plant and the Ford Rouge Plant where Tracy had worked. He died in 1998 at age 98, never having seen his boy work at Ford.”

not to overstate things and the point is taken, but if we’re bringing up background connections to the auto industry and trucks I suspect there are a lot of CEO’s with far thinner glass on their house

 

[jerhenderson]

I’m expecting the worst and hoping for the best. Even Elon was trying to dial back expectations at the last earnings call/event. He wants to pack this thing with every bell and whistle imaginable in order to blow the competition away. Think Hummer EV, not Ford F-150 Lightning. The initial run and first couple of years of the Cybertruck are going to be limited and expensive.

I think initially Tesla and Co. thought making a stainless steel exoskeleton vehicle would be cheaper (ie no paint), but the reality is it’s been delayed for 4 years because of all the new processes they had to create to make it a reality. They need to make their money back from all of the R&D, giga presses, lines, etc. The same thing has happened to ALL of Tesla’s other models, so to expect something different would be ludicrous

At first it will be a halo vehicle (pun intended) for Tesla and drive people toward purchasing their more affordable vehicles. Costs will come down eventually, but the single motor variant will get dropped as it won’t be able to perform like the other models (no rear steering, limited range, etc.)

Tesla will NOT sell multiple variants of the Cybertruck at the same time. The more affordable models would cannibalize the higher-end ones. We’ve already seen this with the drop in sales of the Model S and X in favor of the more affordable 3 and Y.

the reality is it’s been delayed for 4 years because of all the new processes they had to create....

No.....
they had to build the factory.
then covid happened.

 

[AlDente]

As compared to what other major auto CEO’s, including Musk?

And while your point is taken, one arguable differentiation: you might look into Farley’s grandfather, who started working at Ford in 1913 and built Model T’s under Henry Ford.

Farley may have an outsized feeling of connection to Ford and it’s history.

But with that family lineage and history I suspect few of us wouldn’t

“
By the time Farley was 5 years old, he was being groomed by his grandfather, Emmet Tracy, an early employee of company founder Henry Ford. Tracy went on to run an auto parts business and a car dealership in Grosse Pointe.

While other grandparents read Dr. Seuss, Tracy sat down with issues of Automotive News when his grandson visited during Christmas and summer breaks. The two would drive past automotive landmarks, including the Packard Plant, Ford's Piquette Street Plant and the Ford Rouge Plant where Tracy had worked. He died in 1998 at age 98, never having seen his boy work at Ford.”

not to overstate things and the point is taken, but if we’re bringing up background connections to the auto industry and trucks I suspect there are a lot of CEO’s with far thinner glass on their house

Points taken, but when do you ever not overstate things?

 

[cvalue13]

Points taken, but when do you ever not overstate things?

Heavy is the crown

 

[Friday]

None of the legacy auto CEO comments are relevant to me. We've heard from Barra, Farley, Toyoda, VW CEO ( was Diess idk who is now), Stellantis (does it even matter), etc, blather on about what they will do better, sooner, faster (but certainly not cheaper) and it's just wind. I don't care, but I think their stockholders are expecting blather and promises as usual.

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