4860 wild ___ speculation

ajdelange

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I thought it was prolong exposure to oxygen that is killing us?
Oxygen just really wants to tear the electrons off your carbon, hydrogen...The miracle that allowed us to crawl out of the sea is the biochemical system that allows electron transfer from the carbon and hydrogen in things we eat to the oxygen we breathe at a controlled rate without letting it get too many from our bodies. Eventually, though, it does and we slowly burn out. Takes time though.
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John K

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Oxygen just really wants to tear the electrons off your carbon, hydrogen...The miracle that allowed us to crawl out of the sea is the biochemical system that allows electron transfer from the carbon and hydrogen in things we eat to the oxygen we breathe at a controlled rate without letting it get too many from our bodies. Eventually, though, it does and we slowly burn out. Takes time though.
AJ, join me in a round of Tesla Tequila. OneLapper is buying
 

ajdelange

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The last time someone said that to me it did not turn out well.
 

GnarlyDudeLive

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It is prolong exposure to digital screens that is doing the killing. Just try (if you can) spend 24 hours without any screens and you will see how much longer you live In that 24 hours.
I tried it a few days ago. I made it about 22 hours in and then apparently went unconscious and possibly died. Luckily the wife had a picture of the Octovalve on her phone and was able to wave it in my face for a minute or so and was able to revive me. Try this only at your own risk....
 

anionic1

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I haven't seen any confirmation of Tesla getting rid of modules. I know that early last year Elon was talking about getting rid of them and just combining the module team with the pack team at Tesla but other than that I haven't read any articles that mention that.

If they get rid of modules which would probably be quite beneficial to add more cells, even if just a small amount, I'm sure Tesla it so it's not overly difficult to replace the battery. Without modules it would be far easier to replace just the cells. My assumption is that Tesla could open the battery pack from below, while some of the larger bolts that connect the battery pack to the front and rear castings would be removed, it would be fine while the vehicle is stationary as long as the top part is still secured. Then i assume it would be as easy as replacing the batteries and placing it back in.

Those are just my thoughts if modules are actually going out the door with structural battery packs. It would definitely be a benefit now that there are larger cells that can be replaced a lot faster than many more smaller cells. I hope Tesla does something to make cell replacements that much easier, it would definitely make people really happy in the future when there is an available upgrade.
There will still be battery "modules" but they will be structurally glued between the upper and lower plates in the battery pack to act more or less as permanent structural webbing or columns between the upper and lower battery pack plates. This turns the module casings into a part of the structure and makes it very likely that you won't be able to replace individual modules cost effectively. It is very likely that the entire structural battery pack will need to be removed/un bolted and replaced. I am very certain that in 15 years the battery technology will have improved and that its very likely there will even be after market battery packs with higher energy density that can be purchased as replacements for the truck.

Just to be a little prophetic, I do think that the swappable battery pack has not been completely overruled and it will have a come back. As energy transfer speed and qty become more competitive with EV vehicle charging and as the EV technology tries to branch out into large trucks etc. they will be hitting this ceiling where it is very hard to compete with vehicles transferring liquid energy because it is much faster and energy denser. Electrons move through metal at some stupid slow speed of inches per minute (which is ironic because when they work together they impose crazy large forces). I think I read a recent study that 25% of people go back to ICE cars after owning an EV and its primarily due to charging speed and convenience. It would seem like a plug and play type battery set up with like a core charge would be simple enough. Obviously no one is going to manually put a 1000 lb battery pack in their car themselves so some type of robotic set up would be needed. But think about it like exchanging your old propane tank. You get a refill and a new or recertified tank. The batteries could then sit their and recharge in optimal conditions while you are off driving and having fun. And I bet the battery swap could happen under 1 minute which would beat current gas refueling time. I know EV manufacturers are fighting for every square inch of battery space right now because energy density is an issue so battery packs are all custom sizes, but as energy density improves, I can see a standardized battery being accepted similar to what we see in RC cars and making it swappable would be awesome. I would much rather pay a couple bucks extra every time I charge to cover general battery degradation and replacement than pay $16k in the future. Really a lot of electronic devices with built in battery packs become worthless when the battery dies. think about things in your own life that have a lot of value but the replacement battery packs are so expensive that its almost not worth replacing the pack. Lets say the cybertruck CT3 is worth $15k after 15 years but your battery pack could cost $15k to replace. Maybe the vehicle would be worth $20k with a new pack. It really would be hard to pull the trigger on that $15k. Even financed that's like $300/month. Anyway, thats my argument for a swappable pack system. I am planning to get the CT regardless and I will try to be nice to my expensive battery pack and keep my fingers crossed for a cheap replacement.

Only to continue my long windedness here, I have been replacing battery packs on things around the house like the kids scooters, the power wheels, the dyson vacuum etc. and it does seem like rechargeable batteries are getting cheaper and there are a lot of great aftermarket options out there for those things. I get that those are nowhere near the level of the EV batteries but I remain hopeful that there will be great options for the CT battery down the road.
 

tidmutt

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There will still be battery "modules" but they will be structurally glued between the upper and lower plates in the battery pack to act more or less as permanent structural webbing or columns between the upper and lower battery pack plates. This turns the module casings into a part of the structure and makes it very likely that you won't be able to replace individual modules cost effectively. It is very likely that the entire structural battery pack will need to be removed/un bolted and replaced. I am very certain that in 15 years the battery technology will have improved and that its very likely there will even be after market battery packs with higher energy density that can be purchased as replacements for the truck.

Just to be a little prophetic, I do think that the swappable battery pack has not been completely overruled and it will have a come back. As energy transfer speed and qty become more competitive with EV vehicle charging and as the EV technology tries to branch out into large trucks etc. they will be hitting this ceiling where it is very hard to compete with vehicles transferring liquid energy because it is much faster and energy denser. Electrons move through metal at some stupid slow speed of inches per minute (which is ironic because when they work together they impose crazy large forces). I think I read a recent study that 25% of people go back to ICE cars after owning an EV and its primarily due to charging speed and convenience. It would seem like a plug and play type battery set up with like a core charge would be simple enough. Obviously no one is going to manually put a 1000 lb battery pack in their car themselves so some type of robotic set up would be needed. But think about it like exchanging your old propane tank. You get a refill and a new or recertified tank. The batteries could then sit their and recharge in optimal conditions while you are off driving and having fun. And I bet the battery swap could happen under 1 minute which would beat current gas refueling time. I know EV manufacturers are fighting for every square inch of battery space right now because energy density is an issue so battery packs are all custom sizes, but as energy density improves, I can see a standardized battery being accepted similar to what we see in RC cars and making it swappable would be awesome. I would much rather pay a couple bucks extra every time I charge to cover general battery degradation and replacement than pay $16k in the future. Really a lot of electronic devices with built in battery packs become worthless when the battery dies. think about things in your own life that have a lot of value but the replacement battery packs are so expensive that its almost not worth replacing the pack. Lets say the cybertruck CT3 is worth $15k after 15 years but your battery pack could cost $15k to replace. Maybe the vehicle would be worth $20k with a new pack. It really would be hard to pull the trigger on that $15k. Even financed that's like $300/month. Anyway, thats my argument for a swappable pack system. I am planning to get the CT regardless and I will try to be nice to my expensive battery pack and keep my fingers crossed for a cheap replacement.

Only to continue my long windedness here, I have been replacing battery packs on things around the house like the kids scooters, the power wheels, the dyson vacuum etc. and it does seem like rechargeable batteries are getting cheaper and there are a lot of great aftermarket options out there for those things. I get that those are nowhere near the level of the EV batteries but I remain hopeful that there will be great options for the CT battery down the road.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/29/study-why-some-electric-car-owners-gas-reasons-surprising/

Well....

Keep in mind the reasons why are:

- They were driving Fiat EVs (enough said)
- They didn't have convenient charging at home

Loyalty to Tesla is higher, although I didn't see the % for that.

To me the solution isn't battery swap stations it's just better access to quicker charging:

- Adjust residential codes to include appropriate outlets in garages and in driveways
- Add more street charging for those who park on the street (very common in some areas)
- Adjust regulations requiring apartment buildings to add outlets to parking spots
- Provide incentives for more charging near grocery stories, malls, movie theaters, office buildings, Starbucks (seriously, SB could be the EV charging mecca), restaurants, bars, schools, universities etc.

Once people adopt the mind shift that EV charging is about charging while you do something else and that you don't "fill up" an EV like you do a gas car, the problem mostly goes away. If you can charge around 30 miles an hour over night pretty much most conceivable needs are met. I can see the need for faster charging at public locations though. For example, if you could go grocery shopping for 30 minutes and get 180 miles in that time, you'll have cost the user no time and solved the problem pretty much.

Battery swaps require too much infrastructure IMO.

Plus, lets not ignore things like solid state batteries and other advances that could lead to much faster charging time.

Edit: Come to think of it, is my kids school installed those induction-like chargers in the U-shaped road around their school building, by the time I crawled around that thing to drop my kids off, I'd be charged. 😁
 

tidmutt

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Also, that was 25% of those who bought a new car. The vast majority of EVs didn't get replaced in that time period, so up to 90% didn't buy a new car at all!

-Crissa
Ah yes, I remember that criticism as well. The sample ended up being tiny.
 
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