People often overestimate the range they need... Wildly.

Cyber_Dav

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Well, that's just silly, to drive seven hours to be somewhere two.
We do that twice a month to visit with my mother. We are the closest relatives. 3 hours each way, 2 or max 3 hours visit.
It's not silly, it is NECESSARY. Stop inflicting your rules on other people. We aren't you.
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Crissa

Crissa

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It's not silly, it is NECESSARY. Stop inflicting your rules on other people. We aren't you.
'Inflicting' your tired driving and irresponsible scheduling?

Seems like it's the other way around.

And you're acting like this is something news to you. Or as if I didn't grow up more than two hours drive from a first-run theater. That I wouldn't drive four hours one way to see a movie in 70mm stadium seating with modern sound instead of a cramped twoplex. Same for seeing my Aunt on a holiday. Eight hours to get to her. Or grandparents... One pair lived four hours past Aunty and the other lived so far my parents had to drive shifts... Now it's like fourteen hours of driving, but back then, it was alot more. About eight hours were two-lane, not four-lane freeway like it is now.

It wasn't responsible. Nor safe. Don't act like you're put upon.

-Crissa
 
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Cyber_Dav

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'Inflicting' your tired driving and irresponsible scheduling?

Seems like it's the other way around.

-Crissa
That's truly insesitive, Crissa. I'm really sorry your ego gets in the way of common humanity.
 
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Crissa

Crissa

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That's truly insesitive, Crissa. I'm really sorry your ego gets in the way of common humanity.
Sounds like you have that backwards.

Your ego demands that you insist that you must drive six hours without plugging in.

-Crissa
 

azjohn

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I guess I am silly too, When I lived in Arizona I lived about 40 miles outside of Phoenix and would travel a total roundtrip of 3 hours to run my dog in the mountains of Payson which would be no more than 1 hour, sometimes its not the destination but the journey
 

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No,

If you 'charge less often' you're charging longer.

The topic wasn't about towing.

-Crissa
I have no issue whatsoever with charging longer at my house, but I only want to have to use super chargers on trips. At those times I agree that a shorter charge closer together would make more sense, but what I am doing with the truck will determine how far I can get. I see no downside for larger range. As @MUSK007 would say, range is king.

What I am interested in is this idea that people overestimate the range they need. What are the metric? I was simply trying to say that, to me, it is a moving target (I.e., dynamic with context) and that I am using the range of my current truck (400 miles per fill - 1 week) as a baseline. If I change my perspective to 1 day then I would surely need much less range most of the time.
 
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Crissa

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Downsides to 'longer range':

Higher curb weight
Lower acceleration
Longer stopping distance
Poorer handling in curves, mountains
Lower cargo maximum
Sinks deeper offroad
Higher wear on road surfaces
Lower mileage on tires
Higher initial cost
Fewer can be built

Lots of negatives.

Not the least of which is being a rolling road hazard for driving tired all day.

It may be normal for you, a tiny segment of population, but that doesn't mean it's safe or reasonable.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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Not in TX.

We have driven 6 to 7 hours for a 3 to 4 hour family visit. I don't think we are alone.
You are not alone.

With FSD this will be even more common.

I do not need Ferrari like acceleration.
I need 500+ mile single motor and dual motor options.
 
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Dids

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Crissa, Crissa, Crissa, the poor guy just wants to take a day trip to see family for a couple hours and go back home. Maybe he doesn't wanna knock on the front door with extension cord in hand and ask if they mind him plugging in for the ride home. :p
I want to commend his environmentalist for getting an electric vehicle, but giving up because he can't plug in while he visits seems... well, dumb.
 

Sirfun

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Downsides to 'longer range':

Higher curb weight
Lower acceleration
Longer stopping distance
Poorer handling in curves, mountains
Lower cargo maximum
Sinks deeper offroad
Higher wear on road surfaces
Lower mileage on tires
Higher initial cost
Fewer can be built

Lots of negatives.

Not the least of which is being a rolling road hazard for driving tired all day.

It may be normal for you, a tiny segment of population, but that doesn't mean it's safe or reasonable.

-Crissa
I whole heartily agree with that list of downsides. Lighter is BETTER. To me the answer isn't build in more range. What I want is 300 miles range with the possibility of a full charge on road trips in 20-30 minutes. Shorter times would be even better!
What I don't see a lot of people acknowledging when it comes to these chats about long range, is that with ICE vehicles you are talking about adding storage for the capability of longer range. In ICE vehicles, you are adding weight and costs ONLY when you fill the tank/tanks. In BEV you are adding cost and weight from the moment you buy it. Those 2 things are not going to change. Offroad weight is HUGE! Just driving around with all that added weight the whole time is HUGE! The vehicle has to be built with all that weight in mind, when Tesla is designing the vehicle.
Most of our choices in life are about balance. Balancing risk vs. reward is just one example. Balance is different for every individual, based on THEIR individual needs and desires.
 

firsttruck

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Downsides to 'longer range':

Higher curb weight
It is a truck. It is expected to move cargo. So what if the curb weight increases some. As long as the remaining payload capacity is adequete.

In this case we want that cargo to be more batteries.


Lower acceleration
I need a truck not a Ferrari.


Longer stopping distance
It is a truck. This normal as your payload or tow load increases.
Again this is a truck not a sports car.


Poorer handling in curves, mountains
Again this is a truck. Any payload in the bed will affect handling.

Extra batteries in floor of Cyvertruck should cause much less loss of handling than stuff in bed or towing.

Again truck not sports car.

Lower cargo maximum
It is a truck. This normal as your payload or tow load increases.
Again this is a truck not a sports car.

The payload I want is more batteries for more range.

I can not find how that would be unusual for a truck EV.

Sinks deeper offroad
You sometimes even have this issues with paved roads.

If range is more important to me then I do not go off-road on roads that can not handle the weight. No different than if I have payload in bed.


Not the least of which is being a rolling road hazard for driving tired all day.

I have been driving for over 30 years without an accident. Never had a problem. Both my dad and MOM regularly drove 5 -6 hours non-stop by themselves in several previous generation of cars. You know those huge metal boats that did not have cruise control, lane assist and had no seat belts.

That was just the times when there was only one driver. When both drove together the stops were 5 minutes at most. I have know lots of other people who do it regularly without accidents for 20-40 years.

It may be normal for you, a tiny segment of population, but that doesn't mean it's safe or reasonable.
What you think is unreasonable & unsafe has and is being done safely by millions of drivers every year.

Just because you are uncomfortable does not mean there are not millions of us that can manage it safely.

This is a recurring response on this forum were we are told what we can't do with our truck or being told can't ask for options that we think would enhance our utilization of this expensive asset.

And yes we know Elon and Tesla does not have to change anything if they do not want to but we know that and are NOT stupid.

Also all this long distance non-stop driving is before FSD.

Once FSD is ready it is game over. I will be in the back sleeping. Just like I do on long bus trips. Cybertruck can wake me when we arrive.

Oh forgot. Have ridden on many many Interstate buses where passengers are seated for very long times. Airline trips from U.S. to Southern China (Hong Kong, Taiwan), Australia areas take over 12 hours.
 
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firsttruck

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Offroad weight is HUGE! Just driving around with all that added weight the whole time is HUGE! The vehicle has to be built with all that weight in mind, when Tesla is designing the vehicle.
Tesla already stated payload & towing figures so it is already designed for huge payload.

Use some of the payload for batteries because some owners need more range than they need all that extra payload capacity

In western U.S. there are lots of places where there is no usable charging locations.
Even RV parks are no guarantee because the park may be closed, full or charges excessive price for 1-4 hour charging session (minimum charge of 1 day at $85 /day).
 

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Yes, quite true, the amount of negatives that relate to Longer Range.

Thats why we want : More Range, Less Weight, and oh, for Less Cost.

But for now, what ever the state of those 3 variables is, the really important thing is,
NOT TO MISREPRESENT REALITY.
Don’t lie about how low actual range is to nominal range.
Don’t lie about how low towing range is to nominal range.

Actual range is less than nominal !
Towing range reduces dramatically from Nominal range.

Improvements are coming.

If what was announced on Battery Day is true, then just the bankable 16% improvement in the
4680 cells, just from the form factor alone is great.

Cybertruck’s 500 mile range increases to 580 miles, with zero increase in weight.
NO DOWNSIDE TO LONGER RANGE, AT ALL :D

But I look forward to all the other improvements announced at Battery Day that will give,

LONGER RANGE for ZERO INCREASE IN WEIGHT. IN FACT COULD DECREASE WEIGHT !

And also look forward to Solid State Batteries, big improvements pushing the base energy density to over 450 Wh/kg.

Rocket Lab who currently run their Rocket engines on batteries, and are extremely conscious of energy density improvements commercially available, are noting a 200% to 300% improvements on the horizon, compared to todays batteries.

P.S.

But to impose a judgement on how people should use their vehicle,
What trips are “reasonable”,
When and how, it should be acceptable or not for people to find it appropriate to charge their vehicle, and for how long . . . .

Is the height of arrogant absurdity.

That’s why the Bell Curve exists. Meaning that even if you’re in the common majority for something, that does not remotely invalidate, the peoples actions and their reasons, their requirements, their preferences, in the tails of the curve ( the minority ).

And when that "minority" is in reference to the population of drivers, that minority is actually millions of people !
 
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Crissa

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Tesla already stated payload & towing figures so it is already designed for huge payload.
You're asking for more than they've spec'd. And you guys who wonder why they match the extra motors (which don't cost or weigh alot) with extra batteries (which do cost alot and weigh alot)...

EV means being able to infinitely 'refuel' from whatever energy source is around. Hydro, solar, wind, whatever fuel-generator is handy.

But it does come with the downside that you are carrying around a battery pack. And it isn't light.

And no matter how beefy the truck is, the road is only going to support so much weight. The tires can only have so much adhesion. And for moving or stopping it, well, that weight works against you.

Lastly, they can only make so many batteries, too. Tesla is capacity constrained. That's why they're still 'expensive'!

I hope we can get extension packs. For trailers and for going off-grid. I hope we can link into different power sources to extend our range.

But plugging in doesn't take as long as going to a gas station. At all.

-Crissa
 
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