All Parking Lots with more than 8 spots Should Have Solar Canopies and EV Chargers

[SSonnentag]

The more distributed and at work the better.

You need the solar where the car is parked most of the time during daylight hours.

Having solar at home doesn't help charge your car from solar, if your car is only home at night.

If you have charging at work it wouldn't matter where the solar panels were installed.

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[Bill906]

(which at least where I live, is specifically outlawed by the power company and for good reason)

I'll bite...

Why do you think a smart controller being outlawed is a for good reason?

 

[Cybertruckee]

That's why I'm optimistic that California will be able to achieve their energy independence goals.

Parking spaces in schools and public buildings now have solar panel roofs. A big win for their employees and workers as it's used to be exposed to the elements.

New homes, not sure if this is state mandate, have solar roofs or panels as part of the package.

Then rooftops of buildings, every Kaiser hospitals I've seen are covered with solar panels.

And only a few malls don't have recharging stations.

 

[JBee]

If you have charging at work it wouldn't matter where the solar panels were installed.

Yes it does matter because otherwise you load up the power grid with even more load. With solar onsite at work you don't need to upgrade the grid or use it at all, meaning more grid is available for other loads and more renewables at no extra cost.

 

[mhaze]

I could quote their policy, but briefly, bad things happen if inrush current from a home power gen system hits a grid.

RE "smart controller" I use this phrase to imply an ability of a building to meter power as needed toward certain circuits from solar array or other power gen system, the fraction varying in real time as the amount generated varies. The remainder of power would be from grid.

The option of "selling your solar output to the grid" is a complete ripoff because they are forcing you into a contract where you get payed wholesale then must pay retail. If you gen 1/2 the 500 kwh you need, and you buy at $0.20 and sell at 0.05...

gain or loss

500 kwh * 0.20 = 100$
250 kwh * 0.05 = $25

'For good reason' seems to be doing alot of weight here.

Your power company doesn't want competition, and does not have a good reason to ban solar except its bottom line. I bet if you look into it, they also will drag their feet at hooking up a parking lot charger on its lonesome, too. I know mine does, and peer generation solar systems are widely legal here.

Hence, you would need that protection circuitry installed anyhow, to balance out the demand curve. So why not also generate some or more of your own power in that wasted space?

It feels like some of you are just dragging your feet looking for excuses why we need to continue to scrape, pollute, and continue to pile costs on whoever comes after you.

-Crissa

They don't ban solar, you simply have the option of completely disconnecting from their grid as far as the solar outputs, or selling them all the power you generate. So if you set up solar to charge a car, excess power generated when the car was out driving would be lost. And you'd need a separate system for charging the car from the grid. Pretty simple.

 

[mhaze]

'For good reason' seems to be doing alot of weight here.

Your power company doesn't want competition, and does not have a good reason to ban solar except its bottom line. I bet if you look into it, they also will drag their feet at hooking up a parking lot charger on its lonesome, too. I know mine does, and peer generation solar systems are widely legal here.

Hence, you would need that protection circuitry installed anyhow, to balance out the demand curve. So why not also generate some or more of your own power in that wasted space?

It feels like some of you are just dragging your feet looking for excuses why we need to continue to scrape, pollute, and continue to pile costs on whoever comes after you.

-Crissa

I note you did not answer the question I asked, "What are you referring to?" Please be explicit.

"drag their feet at hooking up a parking lot charger on its lonesome"

No they do not. Also I never said they'd slow walk certain requests. I said they were allowed, or not allowed.

Pretty simple.

 

[Crissa]

I could quote their policy, but briefly, bad things happen if inrush current from a home power gen system hits a grid.

Duh. It'd also be a damned waste to dump energy into de-energized lines, too. These things can be isolated, and it's stupid to think it's any more dangerous than any other isolation.

Do they ban home backup generators, too? It's not even a different switch.

-Crissa

And yes, they do drag their feet to add drops for chargers on street parking. It costs them another meter and they don't want to do it. So how are you worse off wanting to put solar, too?

 

[mhaze]

Duh. It'd also be a damned waste to dump energy into de-energized lines, too. These things can be isolated, and it's stupid to think it's any more dangerous than any other isolation.

Do they ban home backup generators, too? It's not even a different switch.

-Crissa

And yes, they do drag their feet to add drops for chargers on street parking. It costs them another meter and they don't want to do it. So how are you worse off wanting to put solar, too?

I'm only telling you my experience with the agencies, and it's only valid where I live. No judgemental attitudes, just what one can do and not do.

Backup generators operate before the meter, so when one runs the generator, grid power is completely disconnected.

"Duh. It'd also be a damned waste to dump energy into de-energized lines, too. These things can be isolated, and it's stupid to think it's any more dangerous than any other isolation."

Well, that's certainly your opinion. So we need to revise the premise to "Major city energy infrastructure should be modified to meet Crissa's concepts of interoperability with solar panels, which she won't explicitly define"and march forward into that brave new world.

Still looking for a precise definition from you on what your idea of a smart controller is. Not trying to be picky; simply no reason to discuss if people have divergent views on what a smart controller is. I don't really have a dog in that fight, quite happy to charge EV with grid power either at work or at home.

 

[Bill906]

My friend has a Tesla solar system with power walls. He lives in Denver.

During the day, if he's not using as much power as the solar is providing, it charges the power walls.
If there is still power coming from solar and power walls are charged, the excess energy is sent back to the grid.
If he uses a lot of power and drains his power walls, he draws power from the grid.
If he put 20kWh into the grid earlier, he can take that same 20kWh back, free of charge.
At the end of a billing cycle, if he pulled more power from the grid than he put in, he pays retail.
If he put more power into the grid than he took out, he gets paid wholesale.
Not as big of a deal as you make it as long as your system is sized correctly.
If the grid goes down, his system disconnects from the grid and runs off power walls.
In fact, if a major storm is predicted for his area, his system will prioritize charging the power walls so he has more power in the event the grid goes down.

Would that system be illegal with your power system?
Are you on the Texas power grid?

 

[Ogre]

The option of "selling your solar output to the grid" is a complete ripoff because they are forcing you into a contract where you get payed wholesale then must pay retail. If you gen 1/2 the 500 kwh you need, and you buy at $0.20 and sell at 0.05...

This isn’t as bad as you make it sound. A friend of mine has done it for years and makes out quite well. His solar system paid for itself and he basically pays a few dollars every month.

If you are connected to the grid and benefit from it, there is significant cost associated with maintaining that connection. I don’t begrudge the power company recouping that cost.

The problem I see is in some places power companies are trying to get outsized payouts from people who get very little benefit from their grid tie in. If you live in a sunny part of California and have a battery,you could probably unplug entirely and never skip a beat. California utilities are trying to profit from these people as well even though they are net contributors to the power grid and get very very little return benefit.

 

[mhaze]

This isn’t as bad as you make it sound. A friend of mine has done it for years and makes out quite well. His solar system paid for itself and he basically pays a few dollars every month.

If you are connected to the grid and benefit from it, there is significant cost associated with maintaining that connection. I don’t begrudge the power company recouping that cost.

The problem I see is in some places power companies are trying to get outsized payouts from people who get very little benefit from their grid tie in. If you live in a sunny part of California and have a battery,you could probably unplug entirely and never skip a beat. California utilities are trying to profit from these people as well even though they are net contributors to the power grid and get very very little return benefit.

It's not just the split between wholesale and retail price. Here, if you hook up on that basis, where you are selling your output back to the grid, you're UNABLE TO USE your solar system when their grid is down. In my view, that makes it totally useless. It's NOT a backup power source.

And if one did go thru all the gyrations to sell home solar power and buy back grid power, and the result turned out to be that you were paying about the same as if just buying grid power, WTF is going on? Why would anyone do that?

 

[mhaze]

My friend has a Tesla solar system with power walls. He lives in Denver.

During the day, if he's not using as much power as the solar is providing, it charges the power walls.
If there is still power coming from solar and power walls are charged, the excess energy is sent back to the grid.
If he uses a lot of power and drains his power walls, he draws power from the grid.
If he put 20kWh into the grid earlier, he can take that same 20kWh back, free of charge.
At the end of a billing cycle, if he pulled more power from the grid than he put in, he pays retail.
If he put more power into the grid than he took out, he gets paid wholesale.
Not as big of a deal as you make it as long as your system is sized correctly.
If the grid goes down, his system disconnects from the grid and runs off power walls.
In fact, if a major storm is predicted for his area, his system will prioritize charging the power walls so he has more power in the event the grid goes down.

Would that system be illegal with your power system?
Are you on the Texas power grid?

Yes I'm on the Texas grid. Without going and looking at the regulations, I'd guess it'd be okay to use Powerwalls. But those are not going to actually help you much in case the grid goes down. For example, not counting the startup surge, just steady running, one 2A load from a refrigerator and one 2A load from a freezer could be handled by a Powerwall for perhaps 30 hours.

 

[Crissa]

It's not just the split between wholesale and retail price. Here, if you hook up on that basis, where you are selling your output back to the grid, you're UNABLE TO USE your solar system when their grid is down. In my view, that makes it totally useless. It's NOT a backup power source.

And if one did go thru all the gyrations to sell home solar power and buy back grid power, and the result turned out to be that you were paying about the same as if just buying grid power, WTF is going on? Why would anyone do that?

That's merely a configuration.

When the grid is down, nothing stopping you from unplugging from the grid and using your own batteries except yourself.

...And if your freezer is consuming almost 6kWh a day, maybe it's not the Powerwall that's your problem?

-Crissa

 

[mhaze]

That's merely a configuration.

When the grid is down, nothing stopping you from unplugging from the grid and using your own batteries except yourself.

...And if your freezer is consuming almost 6kWh a day, maybe it's not the Powerwall that's your problem?

-Crissa

2A at 120v is pretty typical draw for modern energy-efficient fridges and freezers, so wrong there. 2a * 120V * 24....

re "nothing stopping..." I'll pass on your suggestion but thanks. A system for uploading to grid typically wouldn't have backup batteries, but would have an inverter.

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