C’mon Tesla - Focus on Getting Speed Limit Signs Correct

[SCTesla]

It’s kind of weird to me that this whole business of whether or not Tesla automobiles read speed signs shouldn’t be some hidden clandestine top secret thing. It should be yes or no. Wonder why we can’t get a straight answer…

I remember some discussion on another thread by Crista and it has something to do with residual patents with Mobile eye that needed to expire before they could try and turn on the technology to read speed signs. Not sure if I got all that correct, or even if it’s Accurate.

That's not true.

V13 and prior read signs. It was in the release notes around 2019(not sure when). People tested and it worked.

V14 as Elon explained, they don't even tell it what a stop sign is. It learns from behavior.

It appears there's negative side effects.

The vehicles still read signs and you can see them displayed on your screen, but FSD doesn't follow that as well with V14.

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[65SoYoLO]

but the question is, is the specific speed it’s holdings itself accountable to the CORRECT speed? And I still come back to… It can’t read a darn speed limit sign reliably.

Exactly!!! speed limit on the Long Island expressway is 55 there is a sign around exit 59 that says minimum speed 40 meanwhile everyone is doing 65 I might be doing 57 when it sees that sign immediately slows down to 40, or tries to I have to mash the gas so I don't get rear-ended. Sometimes sloth goes below the speed limit sometimes chill goes below the speed limit today standard was 7 over the speed limit for a few minutes and then went back to 20 over what was on the way and I had to shut it down. It's really becoming monotonous.
Elon, Fix the speed control. The thumb wheel works on adaptive cruise control so you can make it work on FSD. Do it.

 

[HaulingAss]

I haven't had these speed issues I see others reporting. Not sure if they are just hypersensitive or if their FSD works worse than mine. We have four cars with FSD (two hardware 3 and two hardware 4) and I don't find the minor speed variations to be a big deal because they are so easy to correct.

 

[UberNoob]

Before I moved In niceville FL there’s a spot that goes 55 red light standard 45 federal sign after red light school zone upcoming reduce speed to 35 sign then an actual federal 35 sign 500 feet later the school yard. FSD ignores all signs and proceeds 55 through the school zone. It does not read signs at all.

 

[Djinndjinn]

Again, there are two issues here which are related but different.
1. What information does it use to decide what speed limit sign to display on the screen?
2. What information does it use to decide what speed to actually go?

Number 2 is very likely some AI driven blackbox decision-making that nobody really understands. Based in part on the profile chosen, but then nuanced based on the speed of the surrounding traffic, previous knowledge and experience in that location etc.

However, I again want to point out that all drivers are legally bound to the posted speed limit which is simply what do you see on the sign while you’re driving by it. Period. There should be no AI decision-making involved with this. It is a physical object that exists in time and space, that we can see with our eyes, and so can the police. It continues to display the wrong speed, hence the question what information is actually being used to display the speed limit on the car?

To me this is similar to the other displays that we see, including other cars on the road while using FSD. It uses visual information in real time and displays that on the screen. It sees the cars around us. It even knows to some extent their size and shape. But yet it can’t see and display correctly numbers on a speed limit sign.

and yes, I understand that we can push accelerator pedals, move scroll wheels, to adjust our speed, but to WHAT speed? it still requires us to pay 100% vigilant for all speed signs in addition to being vigilant for everything else. Not having to worry about the car understanding what speed it needs to go, regardless of whether it actually goes that speed, would be incredibly helpful and for true FSD critical.

 

[JCERRN]

I used to constantly change the mode to get it to drive the exact speed I wanted to go but I've realized it's better to encourage it with a little push on the throttle than to switch it to a faster mode. It will usually hold the new speed. If it doesn't, then I roll the scroll wheel up to a faster mode.

But how to make vehicle slow down without disengaging? scroll down to chill.

 

[JCERRN]

Again, there are two issues here which are related but different.
1. What information does it use to decide what speed limit sign to display on the screen?
2. What information does it use to decide what speed to actually go?

Number 2 is very likely some AI driven blackbox decision-making that nobody really understands. Based in part on the profile chosen, but then nuanced based on the speed of the surrounding traffic, previous knowledge and experience in that location etc.

However, I again want to point out that all drivers are legally bound to the posted speed limit which is simply what do you see on the sign while you’re driving by it. Period. There should be no AI decision-making involved with this. It is a physical object that exists in time and space, that we can see with our eyes, and so can the police. It continues to display the wrong speed, hence the question what information is actually being used to display the speed limit on the car?

To me this is similar to the other displays that we see, including other cars on the road while using FSD. It uses visual information in real time and displays that on the screen. It sees the cars around us. It even knows to some extent their size and shape. But yet it can’t see and display correctly numbers on a speed limit sign.

and yes, I understand that we can push accelerator pedals, move scroll wheels, to adjust our speed, but to WHAT speed? it still requires us to pay 100% vigilant for all speed signs in addition to being vigilant for everything else. Not having to worry about the car understanding what speed it needs to go, regardless of whether it actually goes that speed, would be incredibly helpful and for true FSD critical.

You can try asking tesla these questions on twitter. If you find out, let us know!

 

[no%X#XMVk65v#cq]

It is interesting when driving down “some” roads, my 2017 MS tells me the speed is one thing and my 24 CT tells me it’s something else..

It can be different in the same vehicle depending on the day!

 

[AlDente]

It might be because there are so many Tesla's (hence more localized training data) here in California but I just don't have the problem to the extent many are experiencing. The FSD release notes acknowledge the issues and they are feeding the AI the images that address these issues but there are literally millions of edge cases that need to be addressed for self driving anywhere. I know my Cybertruck can read speed limit signs because it recognises them and adjusts the vehicles display to reflect those sign values immediately when passing them. It seems the prime directive is to move with the flow of traffic and I fully endorse that priority from a safety standpoint, local speed limits and cops speed traps be damned.

One thing I have noticed is while there is always a sign when entering a speed control zone, there isn't always a sign to reflect the exit from that speed control area. The vehicle will continue at the controlled speed until it sees another speed limit sign. Some times if I use the accelerator I can get it to up the speed to a safer, more appropriate level but it's another edge case that requires repetition to learn. One of the current FSD goals is to have the vehicle learn our "preferences" and adapt to those preferences. That is a mighty big hill to climb.

Many of these comments are "can't see the forest for trees" issues. Every day I am in awe of how well FSD drives and my job as "Supervisor" gets easier with every software release. At a time when technology often complicates life, FSD is a shining star as to what technology can do to solve big problems. I enjoy my limited participation in the refinement of FSD and I'm confident it currently is a much better driver than I am and I know, I'm a better driver than most of you .

 

[MICyber]

I think they should use both vision and data from Google. I turn out of my subdivision, and FSD thinks the speed limit is still 25. The next sign is end 35, so FSD switches to 35 then 100' later a speed limit sign says 45. Google Maps knows the speed limit without having to read a sign.

 

[BrockN]

OP is not wrong. Doubling down on a vision only system makes sense in my opinion but that means the system should be able to read signs... Which it apparently can't or won't. That's a huge fail in my opinion.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here... They should add speeds to the scroll wheel. In my opinion all they need to do is have speeds appear once you roll past the upper or lower limit of the 5 presets. So if you're rolling up it would start with the speed you're doing and allow you to roll faster. If you scroll down, again the same speed you're driving, but continuing to roll would drop it.

No, we shouldn't need this because the system should read the signs... But we apparently do so why can't this be added?

 

[navycamp]

We have a few roads in Michigan where road is marked 55 mph. On one the truck thinks the speed limit is 25 mph for about 5 miles in one direction but not the other. On another, it thinks the speed limit is 40 mph for about 20 miles even though I can read the signs in the display for 50 mph and then 55. It will then speed through a little town until I turn at a traffic light. It has the correct speed going the other direction.

 

[agordon117]

There are about 15 miles each direction on the ohio turnpike between cleveland area and youngstown area where the map data has been wrong since last september. Construction zones ended, and the map data never updated. As far as I've been able to dig up, there is no way to submit a report about bad map data in terms of speed limits. I left hundreds of disengage voice notes over those months and they never fixed it

The construction zones varied but as an example, one was 50mph. The actual speed limit is 70mph, and has been since september. Standard mode will go 55mph. Hurry will always creep up to 82mph on a wide open highway. Ohio highway patrol will ticket anything above +9mph. And if you go 15mph under, obviously you are a complete hazard on the road.

The only way to stay in an acceptable speed range in this stretch (other than disengaging) is to feather back and forth between standard and hurry, triggering brake lights every 15s or so. If you get it just right, you can avoid the brake lights, but the way the scroll wheel input is ignored if it's too close to another input makes it difficult.

All they have to do is bring back manual speed control until they have all of this ironed out. But for some reason people will defend them making us pick between being hazards on the road and getting speeding tickets because in their area it isn't a ticket, or because it's beta software and can't be perfect (but 13.2.9 had manual control), or whatever.

Anything other than bringing back manual control until the speed control is perfect is a misstep. Even if the latest thing Elon is talking about (where the car learns from disengagements individually) includes speed related disengagements, they still should have brought manual speed control back in 14.2.x and didn't.

 

[Mikec3399]

i miss my scroll wheel!

 

[Mr Sir]

Sorry if this was covered already.

Scroll wheel to sloth. Perfection.

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