Charge sharing service-it's a million dollar idea

Diehard

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Keep in mind that a 100% efficient generator producing 250 kW (the maximum size of a Tesla SC) would require 335 HP of prime mover energy or 33 Powerwalls. Tesla has mounted powerwall superchargers on trailers for use during the black outs last summer in California but don't get the idea that Ray's Sunoco is going to be able to put something like this together.

There have also been some reports of smaller enterprises mounting a more reasonable sized generator on/in a truck and dispatching that to stranded drivers. The charging rates are, of course, pretty low but the idea is that in an hour's charging you might pick up enough to get you to a supercharger. The problem is that because of the slow rates achievable with a reasonably sized mobile solution ties up the truck for an hour or more per customer so that perhaps only a half dozen customers can be served per truck per day. I don't think they caught on.
If EVs are designed to be capable of running off of an external battery safely, a service could drop off the battery to the stranded driver, charge the credit card for the service, put a hold on the card for the value of the battery and release when it is returned. you could ask for one or multiple packs depending on how far you are from the next charger. They could pick it up for an additional fee. Of course this should be a national service because you are likely to experience issues on longer travel.
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Newton

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seems like vehicle to vehicle charging might be limited to low speeds (meaning lvl 1?). if we ever get it
 
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ajdelange

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That's cool (Li pack w DC/DC converter in video).
 

Luke42

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Or install enough solar to cover it and cut the utilities completely out of the picture.
That drives the marginal cost per kWh to zero, by increasing fixed costs.

I'm all for it, I'm just pointing out that solar energy is not free.

It's going to feel like the the difference between paying cash up front for a car, or financing it.
 

Crissa

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Your idea is the reason i didnt buy the Tesla branded charger for my home.
A Tesla Tap can be used for other types of vehicles to plug into a Tesla charger. Or you can have an adapter for your Tesla... But Tesla chargers have been more than capable.

-Crissa
 

ajdelange

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That drives the marginal cost per kWh to zero, by increasing fixed costs.
That's what I decided to do. As I look out the window I see guys and BobCats running around building the garage on which the solar panels will mount and in which the PowerWalls and trucks will go. My charging costs will probably be $10 per kW/h by the time they are finished with me. But, WTH, there are no pockets in the shroud and I just feel really, really green.

My neighbor says the government is working on a way to tax sunlight.
 

cary1219

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My neighbor says the government is working on a way to tax sunlight.
I wouldn't be surprised.... don't forget the temptation to tax use of "the peoples' air" every time you breathe....
 

ajdelange

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Those of you who are not currently BEV owners may not be aware that many states require an extra fee for registration of BEV in order to cover the gasoline taxes that they no longer collect from us. How long can it be before the feds figure this out too?

I just remembered that Virginia (where I live) used to charge road fuel tax on avgas. You could get it back by filing your flight logs and receipts with the state at the end of the year.
 

rr6013

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I realize the water is under the bridge but your J1772 friends can charge from a Tesla HPWC.
Can there exist somewhere a matrix of existing “options” to charge Tesla’s? EV’s? Cross-over?

It appears that owners have reached a tipping point. Battery packs are growing. We can’t see what is on the other-side, if anything. OR whether there needs to be AND some “thing” is missing.

IF no such matrix exists, dump on me. I’ll sus-out your links into a matrix . Then repost results here.

B195408D-1FAC-4E88-980A-91F8EC410D60.jpeg

MATRIX (simple)
Tesla owners can charge worldwide on the factory Tesla plug at a Tesla V DC Supercharger or Tesla AC (Level2) Destination charger with Tesla supplied adapter. Tesla now build Dual Connected cars that incorporate the Tesla plug and one of the national standards (above) in the vehicle home market for public access chargers.

Tesla Supercharger / Destination (Level2 Matrix)
Every electric vehicle on the road today is compatible with the U.S. standard AC Level 2 chargers, known in the industry as SAE J1772. That includes Tesla vehicles, even though they come equipped with a Tesla proprietary Supercharger connector plug. A Tesla owner will use the SAE J1772 Charging adapter that came with their model to connect a standard J1772 AC Level 2 charge plug. The company has installed "destination chargers" (basically AC Level 2 chargers) at hotels, restaurants, and shopping centers. Tesla is now additionally factory equipping its newest cars with Dual Connect for national standard receptacles and plugs in markets such as Japan, China and EU. Dual Connect Teslas in addition to Tesla Supercharging around the world, owners can charge at national standard charge stations locally without needing an adapter in their home market.

PUBLIC CHARGING (AC / Fast Charge DC Matrix)
C2B34420-8FCA-4304-8BAE-3CE9BF6FF1C2.jpeg

The way PUBLIC chargers work they are compatible if fitted with the proper adapters and communications interfaces.

Level2 (AC) “public” and Tesla “destination” chargers are prevalent at the least cost. Depending upon market three types of (AC) plug standards exist now:
  • SAE J-1772 - North America and Japan
  • Mennekes (Type 2) - most of the EU
  • GB/T (AC) - China

Four major “public” DC fast charging standards exist right now:
  • CCS Combo 1 - North America (and some other regions)
  • CCS Combo 2 - most of the world (including Europe, Australia, South America, Africa and Asia)
  • GB/T - China
  • CHAdeMO - DC “only” Global and monopoly in Japan
TL;DR
SAE J1772 STANDARDS

VOLTAGESingle PhaseSingle PhaseThree Phase
Level1Level2Level3
120VAC 12amp 1.44kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
120VAC 16amp 1.92kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
120VAC 24amp 1.92kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
208-240VAC 80amp 19.2kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
208-240VAC 400amp 96kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
277VAC TESLA only supportSAE J1772 REV 2009 non-STD
EVSE 50-1000VDC 80amp 80kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
EVSE 50-1000VDC 400amp 400kWSAE J1772 REV 2009
EVSE 50-1000VDC –NONE–

COMPATIBLE CHARGING STATIONS with SAE J1772 REV 2009

PLUG/adapterMAKE/Model
ALL TESLA’s EVSE leads commonly supplied with the vehicle can perform a level 2 charge from a domestic mains plug, albeit at a lower current than a dedicated high-current charging station
120VAC Level2 North America/Japan✔
220-230V COUNTRIES✔
208-240VAC Level2 80A 19.2kW max✔
208-240VAC Tesla Level2 80A 22kW max✔
277VAC Tesla ?
400VAC Germany/EUMennekes✔
500V DC 125A 62.5kW maxCHAdeMO (50kW)✔2019.24.1 firmware or later is required for Model 3 compatibility
CCS Combo1 350kW max North America, CanadaCCS Combo1✔
CCS Combo2 50kW-150kW 350kW max Germany CharIN EUCCS Combo2✔
Edit: add “MATRIX (simple)
add “Tesla Supercharger / Destination (Level2 Matrix)
add “PUBLIC CHARGING (AC / Fast Charge DC Matrix)
add “ TL;DR”
 
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ajdelange

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Currently in the US at Level 2 (240VAC) a Tesla can be charged from any J1772 charger using an adpater. It can also, of course, be charged from a Tesla HPWC (wall charger) or Tesla UMC (Universal Mobile Connector). Tesls is J1772 compliant. It can be charged from J1772 equipment with the adapter. Conversely, all Tesla EVSE can be used to charge any J1772 compliant vehicle with the proper adapter.

At Level 3 in the US a Tesla can only be charged at a Tesla Super charger or at at CHAdeMO station using an adapter. No CCS vehicle can charge from a Tesla Super Charger in the US.

The way the chargers work they are compatible if fitted with the proper adapters and communications interfaces. Elon Musk has always said that Tesla SC are available to any OEM who is willing to pay its share of the freight. Tesla SC with CCS connectors exist in Europe and have charged non Tesla cars but Tesla was not pleased.
 

Crissa

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AC chargers are on most things. A few have only offboard AC chargers, this saves bulk and weight.
L1 - wall outlet - granny cable -> (any brand)
L2 - J1772 cable - J1772 receiver (non-Tesla)
L2 - J1772 cable - J1772 adapter -> L1 granny cable (most brands)
L2 - J1772 cable - J1772 Tesla adapter -> (Tesla)
L2 - Tesla Destination charger -> (Tesla)
L2 - Tesla Destination charger -> Tesla Tap adapter -> J1772 receiver (non-Tesla)
L2 - Tesla Destination charger -> Tesla Tap adapter -> J1772 adapter -> L1 granny cable (most brands)

DC charging is how the battery actually gets charged. This is basically a charger you don't have to carry around. It's technically L2 (DC) but most people call it L3

Chademo -> (some brands)
Japanese standard. The Leaf had this. Many older brands used it. I n the US, its power-limited, but not in Japan.
Chademo -> Tesla Chademo adapter -> (Tesla)
CCS -> (some brands)
CCS1 is the US standard and CCS2 is the EU standard. They're not the same. The new Leafs have this, the Bolt has this. There's supposedly a Tesla adapter in Korea as they use US standards, but none in the US yet.
Supercharger -> (Tesla)
EU Superchager 2 -> Equal to CCS2 -> (non-Tesla)

No other brands have taken Tesla up on their deal yet for Supercharging.

There's a couple of older standards you might find out there in the wild, but they're so uncommon as to not mention. I skipped the Mennekes (EU version of the J1772) as it's the same grid as J1772. EU power has up to three phases which means everything even more complex!

-Crissa
 
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rodmacpherson

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Not exactly what you have in mind, but where I work there are 2 free chargepoint Level 2 stations across the street, and 6(soon to be 12) Flo Level 2 stations next door to our building. The free stations of course are always taken, but the others are $1.50/hour. For the folks with slower charging EVs, or who don't have the flexibility to leave their desk at any time to move the car, that can be expensive. I drive a 2012 leaf, and I'm often looking for a bit more charge if I had to run around during the day, it's not a big deal, but it can be a bit of a hassle to have to go unplug partway through the day. ...so, you gave me an idea.
The CT has a 240V outlet. I could probably offer other EV owners a top up service. If you are low on juice and don't want to pay $6 at the Flo chargers, plug in to my truck. :) monthly charge club membership dues apply.
 
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