Robesaw

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It puts EV charging time into parity with fuel refilling at superchargers. Which is awesome.
I think we have to look at charging curves to see actual charge times on a 1000v architecture.
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Robesaw

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You are right. We are going to see a much more expensive vehicle than originally unveiled for a lot of reasons including so many years behind and inflation, new features etc. plus the standard model will not likely be available for years. All EV OEMs seem guilty of bait and switch offering standard model pricing on a vehicle that will not be offered. Tesla is also guilty of this. I’d sure like to hope my original reservation price holds, but I don’t think it will.
 
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samroy92

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I think we have to look at charging curves to see actual charge times on a 1000v architecture.
Charge curves will be exactly the same. V3 charging curve is dependent on cell architecture, battery chemistry, and vehicle cooling system. The amount of "kW" that you can deliver to the car is also the same, with a higher voltage you require smaller wires and less cooling for the conductors. Same power.

If I plug in a 2200W heater to my 110V home outlet, I am drawing 20 Amps.
If I plug in a 2200W heater to my 220V outlet, I am drawing 10 Amps.

The 2200 Watt heater is still using the same power, the delivery of that power changes.

The current V3 NACS charging standard:
Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck 1000V Architecture + V4 Supercharging Confirmed!! ⚡️ "It's Going to be Used for Cybertruck Too" - Elon Musk 1670197010098


500V * 900A = 450kW rating, today. V4 is probably capable of multi-MW delivery (not just 1MW) but we'll have to wait to see the technical docs :).
 

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Maybe we should wait for the update before we assume the retail price of the CT.

The Semi is a good case in point. Vastly superior, yet if we apply the same logic to it as we do for the CT, it should retail for $400,000, not ~$200,000.

https://www.trucks.com/2022/03/29/volvo-wins-largest-order-for-electric-trucks/
"A Class 8 electric truck sells for $300,000 or more, depending on the vehicle and configuration."

This data may not be entirely accurate, but close enough.

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck 1000V Architecture + V4 Supercharging Confirmed!! ⚡️ "It's Going to be Used for Cybertruck Too" - Elon Musk 1670205030300


So Tesla’s Semi has blown everything apart, both in performance and price.

They have been NUKED.


CT will mirror.
 


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You are right. We are going to see a much more expensive vehicle than originally unveiled for a lot of reasons including so many years behind and inflation, new features etc. plus the standard model will not likely be available for years.
Define "much more expensive" and why.

"So many years behind"? What are you talking about? From the day of the reveal, all AWD CTs were not expected until late 2022. Did I sleep through a couple years? Is it 2024 already?

What new features do you know about that we know were not part of the original plan?

What is the "standard model" in your mind?
 
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As @Dids pointed out both the electrical and the heat path are optimised in a 4680 cell tabless design. The snake cooling from the 2170 packs is still being used because it has a larger surface area to transfer heat over and so offers less thermal resistance than using the end caps of the 4680.

So even if the tabless design was a wash because of the volume increase (which it's not, 4680 is still >30% better than 2170 per Wh for heat generation), it would still offer better cooling from the shorter tabless heat path length, let alone structuralpack Integration etc. That in turn leads to better cooling and higher average C rate, without including any battery chemistry improvements, or HVAC capacity increases, preconditioning etc. Overall I expect production 4680 to achieve up to 2C or more because of this on a full pack charge, and probably double peak rates compared to a 2170.
 
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samroy92

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Overall I expect production 4680 to achieve up to 2C or more because of this on a full pack charge, and probably double peak rates compared to a 2170.
Agreed. 2C on a 170kWh pack would be 340kW peak charging rate. I truly think the 4680 will be capable of that 3C+ peak rate as well but there's a balancing act between speed and longevity.

3C is 510kW on a 170kWh pack (3 x 170) which is ~2x current peak speeds of 250kW on Model Y 82kWh pack - just reiterating your expectations in terms of assumed Cybertruck pack size and a damned impressive C-Rate of 3 on those cells.

But its worth just repeating again... 1 MW is -not- realistic for the Cybertruck, and Elon did -not- say Cybertruck was going to charge at 1 MW.
 

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Agreed. 2C on a 170kWh pack would be 340kW peak charging rate. I truly think the 4680 will be capable of that 3C+ peak rate as well but there's a balancing act between speed and longevity.

3C is 510kW on a 170kWh pack (3 x 170) which is ~2x current peak speeds of 250kW on Model Y 82kWh pack - just reiterating your expectations in terms of assumed Cybertruck pack size and a damned impressive C-Rate of 3 on those cells.

But its worth just repeating again... 1 MW is -not- realistic for the Cybertruck, and Elon did -not- say Cybertruck was going to charge at 1 MW.
I never mentioned anything about the 1MW charge rate for CT. But my 2C expectation is for a full pack, or at least 90% of it. For comparison MY/M3 are 1C for that 90% charge range, but I expect the CT 4680 to double that on "production" cells, just maybe not the initial packs. That means 5-6C peak for the sweet spot from 20-70%, which on a 150kWh 420mile pack would peak at 750-900kW...so not far off the 1MW, which leads into the other argument that V4 is 1MW because CT, RT and Roadster etc need it to be.

BTW LiPoly does 10's C, use them all the time for quadplane/copter competitions.

 


ED_SFO

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I wanted a tri-motor but it is prob in the 80-90k range with the solar tonneau, so no $7.5k rebate. Hopefully they have a dual motor with an option for 500 mile range for under 80k with solar cover. That should be good enough for me, range is much more important than a 3 second 0-60. 4.5 is plenty fast for a truck of this size.
 

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How often do you need to fill the battery that you need to charge over 66mph at home?

-Crissa
It is a question of freedom :unsure: and efficiency (sorry I grew up in Germany ;))

It minimises charging losses, there fore saves energy.🤑 Time saved is a bonus.

I do not need to charge up with 22kW, but it is helpfull to have this option.

Especially if the truck has a bussy schedule. It is a tool for work after all 😜
The truck should have a fast turn around time.
Basically charge while beeing loaded with goods.
No extra stop at SUCs.

SUC btw. is 10x more expensive than my own PV power (23kWp array).
This will be the same for companies that have installed even bigger PV arrays.

I understand that the my perspective, living in a part of the world with a 230/400 V 3Phase High Amp public grid, is different from yours.
Here we do not have to think before pluging in a washer or dryer.😅 Or CT for that matter.
But we can not buy a shootgun at Walmart. 😭

We actually have BEVs driving around now that support 22kW AC charging (granted not the majority).
Why should I applaude a CT with inferior specs in the charging at home department ?

And if you factor in V2X (e.g. worksite, home) >20kw output (same inverter) also is peace of mind.
It will cover all your loads, and support High (starting)Amp powertools like large compressors, welding equippment, Home AC.
Take this F-150 Lightning. CT💪

One thing I really like about this forum:
It brings together people from all over this world.
By listening to each other we can grow our own understanding/picture of this world.

I appreciate interacting with you #crissa. It is allways enriching my day.👏👍Keep it up.
 

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Especially if the truck has a bussy schedule. It is a tool for work after all 😜
The truck should have a fast turn around time.
Basically charge while beeing loaded with goods.
That seems like a rather unusually busy day that they loaded, drove a few hundred miles, unloaded, then came back to do it all again.

Most delivery trucks don't do that sort of mileage.

-Crissa
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