Cybertruck 1000V Architecture + V4 Supercharging Confirmed!! ⚡️ "It's Going to be Used for Cybertruck Too" - Elon Musk

[samroy92]

Didddddds, the cable is capable of 1 MW+. It has a new cooling design, it has a new conductor design, its going to be great.

If you roll up a made-in-china LFP model 3 into a v3 supercharger, no matter how hard you try, it will NOT achieve 250kW...

https://insideevs.com/news/514857/mic-tesla-model3-srp-charging/

I don't really know how much more I can say to really drive this point home.

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[Crissa]

Capability of the technology isn't the same as what each truck that's using it will get. Which is kinda your point on the Model 3.

-Crissa

 

[Throwcomputer]

Elon said very little, and was vague. We’re all filling in the blanks with assumptions.

Cybertruckassumptionsforum.com

 

[RVAC]

That's what the cable is capable of doing not what the Cybertruck will be able to accept in terms of power.

 

[Dids]

The CT max charge rate is a good discussion and discussing what a 1MW+ infrastructure means for future CT owners is important. It allows people to plan to meet their needs.
Since we all now agree that CT will have 1000v architecture and V4 supercharging is capable of 1MW+ via NACS connector let's talk about what that means for CT.
@samroy92 Is right 1 MW charging either requires a higher C rate or a very large pack. Alternatively new cells with higher voltage or higher capacity.

 

[JBee]

I was skeptical about the clutch system for disengaging the front motors. Letting the motors spin freely should have zero impact on efficiency, other than the negligible drag of friction on the gears and bearings.

However, friction leads to heat, and heat is death for the Tesla electric motors since it destroys the magnets. If they let the front motors spin, they would need thermal management as well. (This is why a Tesla should never be flat-towed.)

So, friction losses PLUS cooling losses EQUALS use a clutch. Gotcha.

Permanent magnet motors produce an electrical current when you spin the magnets on the rotor, and creates power. Induction motors don't have magnets, but the Plaid motors are Permenant Magnet so they do. So with 3x Plaid motors and without a clutch, one axle would propel the truck while the other axle would be in regen mode and make electicity. A PM can't be turned off as such.

The reason they decouple the two motors is to keep the one PM motor and axle in the middle of the PM motor efficiency heat map for best range, not just to reduce gear friction. If you don't allow a path for the PM motor to dissipate the electricity it produces from being spun, the motor will heat up and could damage itself.

But the amount of braking the single motor axle would have to overcome would be considerable. You can use the motor controller to lesson the regen effect but it would still create energy losses.

In the M3/MY the rear motor is induction and can be "turned off" completely, whilst the front PM motor drives the vehicle.

 

[Dids]

I happen to think that there are new cells with higher voltage and higher capacity. This is inline with Franz interview where he says he is working on a new product that is a passenger vehicle not in the normal space and that passenger cars have 4 wheels currently. This might imply aircraft and for that they need higher energy density cells.... These various tidbits probably mean they have a working high nickel 4680 per battery day and /or some new breakthrough allowing higher energy density or maybe the reason we haven't seen Dr. Schmuckty Schmucks zero point energy device is that Tesla bought it from him.

 

[HaulingAss]

232 kwh in 30 days is 7.73 kwh per day. That's like 93 cents per day

No. I'm not talking chemistry. In a normal jelly roll battery, an electron has to travel up to 32 inches (16" or 406 mm) average from the connecting tab to the average spot it's going to hang out in.
On the 4680, with it's 'tabless' design, the average distance an electron travels is 40 millimeters. Electricity traveling through a conductor encounters resistance. Resistance = heat. So, the 4680 batteries will see approximately 10 times lower internal resistance. That means less heat. That means you can shove more electricity through the battery and generate the same amount of heat. 10 times the electricity? Not quite, but it will be a lot.
THAT is the battery tech I was referring to. Chemistry changes will be incremental.

We've been over this before. @samroy92 has the correct answer. Specifically, that the benefit of lower resistance of the 4680 cell allows the cell to be larger in diameter without undue heat buildup. Essentially, the benefits of lower resistance are "used up" by the diameter and therefore it will charge at similar C rates to 2170 cells.

 

[samroy92]

The CT max charge rate is a good discussion and discussing what a 1MW+ infrastructure means for future CT owners is important. It allows people to plan to meet their needs.
Since we all now agree that CT will have 1000v architecture and V4 supercharging is capable of 1MW+ via NACS connector let's talk about what that means for CT.
@samroy92 Is right 1 MW charging either requires a higher C rate or a very large pack. Alternatively new cells with higher voltage or higher capacity.

Agreed!

 

[HaulingAss]

True about heat dissipation but the 5x mass also means also means it takes longer to hit the saturation point of heat before reduction in charging speeds. So not just heat dissipation but also heat saturation. Something to ponder on.

That's not really true. The larger size of the 4680 means there will be less of them to absorb heat so, all else being equal, the larger size is not really an advantage in terms of reaching heat saturation at a given rate of charge. The only advantage in this respect would be if the 4680 had less energy density (but we know it actually has slightly more, all else being equal).

 

[HaulingAss]

I believe Tesla also has a generous reserve backup of batteries.

This 500-mile range is fully gettable without worrying about running out of juice at 501 miles. Maybe the true range is 525+

We can add those few percentages leftover from that 500 run as well.

Of course we don't want to run out, but nice to know it can be stretched closer to 550 than 500.

Take that Elon Musk !!

Not to be a negative Nancy here but it looks like the 500-mile range test was conducted with a load of concrete Jersey barriers aligned with the airflow on a flatbed. This is considerably more aerodynamic than an enclosed trailer. I suspect the same test, with the same load, in an exclosed trailer would resut in a range of about 25% less, which would be a little over 400 miles.

 

[samroy92]

Not to be a negative Nancy here but it looks like the 500-mile range test was conducted with a load of concrete Jersey barriers aligned with the airflow on a flatbed. This is considerably more aerodynamic than an enclosed trailer. I suspect the same test, with the same load, in an exclosed trailer would resut in a range of about 25% less, which would be a little over 400 miles.

The 500mi official range test was done with a closed trailer, the concrete barrier trailer was B-Roll passing footage

 

[firsttruck]

We've been over this before. @samroy92 has the correct answer. Specifically, that the benefit of lower resistance of the 4680 cell allows the cell to be larger in diameter without undue heat buildup. Essentially, the benefits of lower resistance are "used up" by the diameter and therefore it will charge at similar C rates to 2170 cells.

Yup, this was covered in Tesla battery day.
Tesla multitab (tabless) is necessary because of the 5x larger diameter of 4680 compared to 2170. The Tesla multitab (tabless) will probably allow some overall improvement to C-rate but it will not double or triple C-rate over 2170 C-rate.

 

[GnarlyDudeLive]

The 40mm electron path in the 4680 also means 40mm path for heat conduction to the can.

Though correct me if I am wrong, the 40mm path is not doing heat transfer, its actually reducing resistance and preventing it from occurring as quickly in the first place.

 

[firsttruck]

Not to be a negative Nancy here but it looks like the 500-mile range test was conducted with a load of concrete Jersey barriers aligned with the airflow on a flatbed. This is considerably more aerodynamic than an enclosed trailer. I suspect the same test, with the same load, in an exclosed trailer would resut in a range of about 25% less, which would be a little over 400 miles.

I think the video showing Tesla Semi with flatbed loaded with concrete barriers was not the 500-mi trip (Fremont to San Diego). The video showing Tesla Semi with flatbed loaded with concrete barriers was climbing I-80 Donner Summit. Tesla Semi with flatbed loaded with concrete barriers was able to climb the summit ( grade 3% to 6%) at high-speed while other trucks were struggling to climb the summit.


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Is it Donner Pass or Donner Summit? I’m Confused
November 11, 2021 By J. Brandon
https://sierramountainpasses.com/northern-sierra/donner-pass-or-donner-summit/

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Donner Pass or Donner Summit?
Interstate 80 crosses the Sierra Nevada range about 9 miles (14 kilometers) west of Truckee, California. On USGS topo maps the gap in the mountains is called Euer Saddle. Most folks call it Donner Pass. Caltrans calls it Donner Summit. Donner Pass is on Donner Pass Road, about two miles (three kilometers) south of the Donner Summit highway rest area on I-80.

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I-80 over Donner Summit

Interstate 80 is a major east-west transportation corridor. About 30,000 vehicles cross Donner Summit per day. About 6,000 of those vehicles are tractor-trailer rigs. Those trucks carry something between US$4 to $8 million in cargo over the Sierra each hour.

Location Donner Summit is at 39°20’26.3″N 120°20’39.4″W (39.340649, -120.344272). It is about 9 miles (14 kilometers) west of Truckee, California and about 65 miles (104 kilometers) east of Auburn. San Francisco is 175 miles (280 kilometers) west. Reno, Nevada is 40 miles (65 kilometers) east. Elevation Donner Summit is at 7,239 feet (2,206 meters) above sea level, in the westbound lanes of Interstate 80. In the eastbound lanes the elevation is 7,227 feet (2,203 meters) above sea level.

.....
Grade
The highway grade on I-80 over Donner Summit varies from 3 percent to 6 percent over a span of 30 miles (48 kilometers).

.....
Though the speed limit is generally 65 miles (104 kilometers) an hour, in clear weather most traffic moves about 70 to 80 mph (112 to 128 kph). On uphill grades large trucks will often slow to well below 50 mph (80 kph) or less. Sometimes much less. Most slow uphill stretches include additional right-hand lanes for slow-moving trucks.

Westbound I-80 features numerous signs warning truckers to watch their downhill speed. And there is a long brake-check area between Nyack and Blue Canyon. For those drivers who ignore the signs and the brake check, there are two runaway truck ramps a bit further down the hill.


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