Cybertruck + catamaran = Cybercat™

[Cybercat_enthusiast]

Cool, however, hydrofoiling it seems to be a stretch.

Yes, a propeller drive would be more practical with a simpler adapter and if the Cybertruck is carrying a truck camper, it becomes a boat cruiser. Solar panel is a must as there will never be any charger out there unless Elon can send a lightning bolt out there thru the Starlink.

Good luck, still, it's cool.

FAQ #8 - recently added website section:
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

8. The hydrofoils supporting that much weight don't seem realistic.

Using hydrofoils in this application is completely realistic. Hydrofoils have been around for over 100 years and the largest foiling watercraft, such as the USS Plainview launched in 1965, weigh more than 300 tons. Hydrofoiling craft are most suited for use cases where the weight of the cargo is small relative to that of the vessel, and their superior efficiency in the water has been driving their resurgence as more boat manufacturers consider electric powertrains.

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[Cybercat_enthusiast]

Whats your plan to control trim whilst foiling with varying load conditions and sea state?

Technically, you don't need pontoons if you can get enough power to get onto plane with the foils. CT floats by itself, just install some inflatable door seals and/or some inflatable emergency bouys.

I'd probably rather tow a boat though at those prices.

Trim while not foiling: The angle of outboard motors/propellers is adjustable by the same mechanism that rotates them up/down for amphibious transition.

->Trim while foiling, FAQ #14:
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

"14. How do you ensure stability in the water while foiling?

Stability while turning is electronically controlled by the drive-by-wire rudder and propeller system to ensure that the maximum safe cornering radius is never exceeded. The design as shown has opted for a front hydrofoil which maintains pitch passively based on the amount of foil submerged. At higher speeds, the front foil pitches the vehicle up, reducing the area of the foil submerged, thus reducing lift in a self-stabilizing manner. As the vehicle turns, one side of the foil is more submerged, increasing the reaction force provided to counteract roll and maintain stability. The passive front hydrofoil has deliberately been chosen for enhanced robustness and simplicity at the cost of slightly reduced hydrodynamic efficiency.

The watercraft has a wide rear hydrofoil which similarly helps to provide greater stabilizing reaction force during turns (like having two contact points rather than one). Both foils combine to provide a stable ride through turns akin to a four-wheeled vehicle (as opposed to a vehicle of the three or two-wheeled variety) for maximum stability."


->Towing a boat at those prices, FAQ #28:

"28. Why shouldn’t I just spend $15-25k on a nice dinghy and trailer?

The dinghy is a good option if you want to get out on the water tomorrow, but it is completely outclassed in every respect by the Cybercat. It is like comparing a dinghy to a high-tech 26+ ft. rigid inflatable boat with an enclosed cabin. The Cybercat can go on the ocean, can seat 5+, has a fully furnished cabin with HVAC and infotainment such as Netflix on a 17 in. display and surround sound, a 6.5+ ft. long deck, etc., and the other is essentially a small, exposed vessel, only suitable for a few people in calm water.

Furthermore, trailering even the smallest dinghy will significantly eat into Cybertruck range on the road and you would not be able to make trips where you take advantage of the vehicle’s amphibious capabilities to enter the water in one location, exit at a different point, and continue on your adventure."

 

[Cybercat_enthusiast]

Yes, it is never the same in real life as in reality

FAQ #1,2,3,11
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

 

[Cybercat_enthusiast]

FAQ #1
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

 

[Cybercat_enthusiast]

It's beautiful. Where can I test drive one 'them bad boys?

Thanks!

Getting email sign ups goes a long toward demonstrating market interest which enhances the probability that the Cybercat/Cybercat Foiler makes it to market. Please consider signing up and sharing!

Best,
Anthony

FAQ#2,3, and 5:
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

 

[JBee]

Trim while not foiling: The angle of outboard motors/propellers is adjustable by the same mechanism that rotates them up/down for amphibious transition.

->Trim while foiling, FAQ #14:
https://www.cybercatamaran.com/#FAQs

"14. How do you ensure stability in the water while foiling?

Stability while turning is electronically controlled by the drive-by-wire rudder and propeller system to ensure that the maximum safe cornering radius is never exceeded. The design as shown has opted for a front hydrofoil which maintains pitch passively based on the amount of foil submerged. At higher speeds, the front foil pitches the vehicle up, reducing the area of the foil submerged, thus reducing lift in a self-stabilizing manner. As the vehicle turns, one side of the foil is more submerged, increasing the reaction force provided to counteract roll and maintain stability. The passive front hydrofoil has deliberately been chosen for enhanced robustness and simplicity at the cost of slightly reduced hydrodynamic efficiency.

The watercraft has a wide rear hydrofoil which similarly helps to provide greater stabilizing reaction force during turns (like having two contact points rather than one). Both foils combine to provide a stable ride through turns akin to a four-wheeled vehicle (as opposed to a vehicle of the three or two-wheeled variety) for maximum stability."


->Towing a boat at those prices, FAQ #28:

"28. Why shouldn’t I just spend $15-25k on a nice dinghy and trailer?

The dinghy is a good option if you want to get out on the water tomorrow, but it is completely outclassed in every respect by the Cybercat. It is like comparing a dinghy to a high-tech 26+ ft. rigid inflatable boat with an enclosed cabin. The Cybercat can go on the ocean, can seat 5+, has a fully furnished cabin with HVAC and infotainment such as Netflix on a 17 in. display and surround sound, a 6.5+ ft. long deck, etc., and the other is essentially a small, exposed vessel, only suitable for a few people in calm water.

Furthermore, trailering even the smallest dinghy will significantly eat into Cybertruck range on the road and you would not be able to make trips where you take advantage of the vehicle’s amphibious capabilities to enter the water in one location, exit at a different point, and continue on your adventure."

Thanks for the info.

If I understand correctly there are no trim surfaces on the front foil that can correct foil pitch, rather it is done passively. On your renders for the foil version there is no clear visual how this is achieved. Typically, passive hydrofoils use a angled and/or bowed front foil that is angled from the outside of the craft at the waterline height to the center of the craft underneath the craft in the shape of a "V". This allows the craft to roll in turns without reducing underwater foil area and therefore lift.

These work well for craft that do not have large mass changes because of load. If you assume that the CT is going to weigh 7000lb and the stated CT payload is 3500lb, then this represents a substantial 50% of the mass of the CT. A passive foil setup does not seem like a good fit and a active system is likely the only way to achieve this.

Further your front V foil is not the correct way around to achieve a passive foil, as it goes from Center top to outside bottom. This means that while you turn and the craft rolls you will end up with less exposed foil area to create lift as the foil becomes nearly vertical. Structurally a normal V would be superior use of materials too.

CT towing range will be highly dependant on trailer and boat type being transported. In your use case there is no demonstration of how it will be transported on the CT. I can see the 5 motors (two would suffice?) would fit in the bed with maybe a few of the brackets. The two pontoons with supporting truss however I can't imagine going anywhere else except on a rear roof rack, where even if they were completely deflated would produce more drag and range loss than a trailer with a boat. (BTW boats are fairly streamlined in comparison to a box trailer)

As for price you state the foil version will cost upwards of $40k. You can get a decent "dingy" for that even here in Australia, which will easily outperform the CT as a boat in every metric.

I'm not trying to be overly negative as I do like hydrofoils, and theres been a few car foils before, but there seems to be some work needed to actually convert the stated performance in a real hydrofoil CT conversion kit. If anything if it was me trying to engineer this thing, I'd remove the pontoons and framing required for it and go with a simple V foil up front and a T foil in the rear that has trim and two motors attached to the foil. To attach put the CT suspension up, reverse up to rear foil and attach, then slide the front foil underneath from the side and attach to rear underside. Attachment points and wiring can be preinstalled, you could also have a subframe you could drive over and lower the CT onto. Both foils can remain stowed under the CT for on road use this way, then when you drive into the water using the bouancy of the CT alone (or maybe some inflatable bouys that come out of the wheel housing), you can then fold down the foils once you are in deep enough water and foil away.

 

[Cybercat_enthusiast]

Thanks for the info.

If I understand correctly there are no trim surfaces on the front foil that can correct foil pitch, rather it is done passively. On your renders for the foil version there is no clear visual how this is achieved. Typically, passive hydrofoils use a angled and/or bowed front foil that is angled from the outside of the craft at the waterline height to the center of the craft underneath the craft in the shape of a "V". This allows the craft to roll in turns without reducing underwater foil area and therefore lift.

These work well for craft that do not have large mass changes because of load. If you assume that the CT is going to weigh 7000lb and the stated CT payload is 3500lb, then this represents a substantial 50% of the mass of the CT. A passive foil setup does not seem like a good fit and a active system is likely the only way to achieve this.

Further your front V foil is not the correct way around to achieve a passive foil, as it goes from Center top to outside bottom. This means that while you turn and the craft rolls you will end up with less exposed foil area to create lift as the foil becomes nearly vertical. Structurally a normal V would be superior use of materials too.

CT towing range will be highly dependant on trailer and boat type being transported. In your use case there is no demonstration of how it will be transported on the CT. I can see the 5 motors (two would suffice?) would fit in the bed with maybe a few of the brackets. The two pontoons with supporting truss however I can't imagine going anywhere else except on a rear roof rack, where even if they were completely deflated would produce more drag and range loss than a trailer with a boat. (BTW boats are fairly streamlined in comparison to a box trailer)

As for price you state the foil version will cost upwards of $40k. You can get a decent "dingy" for that even here in Australia, which will easily outperform the CT as a boat in every metric.

I'm not trying to be overly negative as I do like hydrofoils, and theres been a few car foils before, but there seems to be some work needed to actually convert the stated performance in a real hydrofoil CT conversion kit. If anything if it was me trying to engineer this thing, I'd remove the pontoons and framing required for it and go with a simple V foil up front and a T foil in the rear that has trim and two motors attached to the foil. To attach put the CT suspension up, reverse up to rear foil and attach, then slide the front foil underneath from the side and attach to rear underside. Attachment points and wiring can be preinstalled, you could also have a subframe you could drive over and lower the CT onto. Both foils can remain stowed under the CT for on road use this way, then when you drive into the water using the bouancy of the CT alone (or maybe some inflatable bouys that come out of the wheel housing), you can then fold down the foils once you are in deep enough water and foil away.

Thanks for the response!

Hard to see from the pictures but best image is first render of the Cybercat / Cybercat Foiler side-by-side, underwater level, front foil is indeed angled. Also last render on beach show it, though from the side. At higher speeds this becomes surface piercing. Roll submerges side of turn direction more and opposite side less. I may be missing your point.

You are right about payload capacity. Payload would be significantly reduced for both models but impact is more significant for foiler. Still don’t think this is that significant for typical uses cases. The one render with something in the truckbed shows a popup tent.

As designed, all frame members (including outboards and deflated pontoons) are designed to fit into the truckbed with cover closed. This is a key design constraint for the final form of frame members as closing the cover is key to maintaining good range.

RE $40k dingy: Probably good used options for that price. I would be curious to see what you are considering comparable to better help me understand people’s perspectives. If some or all of the features mentioned in the FAQ response are not important, then they’re most certainly better alternatives. Key is to compare to equivalent class of boat.

RE your design iteration:
1) Pontoons are important on foiler for a) water access when not moving (i.e., getting in and out without flooding the cab), b) handling rough seas when foil won’t fly, and c) “sport” mode when people what to take sharp turns for fun that would be unstable for foils alone.
2) I’d be concerned about having enough ground clearance from the front foil in your design. If you’re on a good boat ramp, may be good enough.
3) Version like the one you specify would fall squarely in scope of our IP.

Certainly, design is subject to change. I expect any OEM we end up working with will also have ideas of their own to incorporate. After checking out the full set of FAQs, I welcome your thoughts. Always looking for ways to improve the concept/design.

Thanks again for your response!

Best,
Anthony

 

[Klaxon]

There is similar topic

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybertruck-catamaran-cybercat™.4659/

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Weight not a problem. Current inflatable pontoons designed to support +10,000 lbs with load transmitted through vehicle lift points. CT likely to come in at 5,000-7,000lbs.

Separate boat platform considered in original design, too many problems: width required for stability makes oversized for road transport, transport would eat CT range, getting truck on and off would be major pain (in the drink like you said), takes up space so probably need to pay for mooring, can't take on the go so can't do trips where you're in, out and on your way, etc.

Solar you get from roof area not enough for noticeable increase in range over the course of a day (typical way people use recreational boats), especially if pontoon platform doesn’t have standalone battery to charge while docked.

Hahah, yeah probably wouldn’t risk my CT to aftermarket solution like this either. Ultimate goal: get Tesla (or other OEM) to make it for their vehicle because I want to buy it.

When people poke holes in ideas, holes get patched, ideas get better.

The articulation and support mechanism seems overly complicated to me.
I imagine the use case for catamaran pontoons would be for a short crossing, meaning set up time would ideally be 15-20mins.
This design does not seem to take advantage of the vehicle structure. An attachment point analogous to/dual function rock sliders with simple straps would seem like a more efficient mechanism. Then using straps and another baffle to lift the vehicle out of the water.

 

[BillyGee]

But... Why?

 

[Crissa]

Even today, there are towns and trails only accessible by water.

-Crissa

 

[BillyGee]

Even today, there are towns and trails only accessible by water.

-Crissa

I feel like a kayak strapped on top of your cybertruck is probably a much simpler idea than this apparatus.

 

[Crissa]

I feel like a kayak strapped on top of your cybertruck is probably a much simpler idea than this apparatus.

Kayaks are great for narrow or calm but not so great for much distance.

They solve completely different problems. Ones I can't afford to solve.

-Crissa

 

[John K]

Considering how the apparatus would need to be transported, maybe towing a small powered barge to drive your CT on? Understandable, hydrofoil is enticing.

 

[Cybertruckee]

Seems a huge power drain with hydrofoil than a conventional boat/cruiser -- one to gain speed to lift to hydrofoil rather than just simply making it move forward with a propeller.

There is always merit to KISS (keep it simply stupid) concepts.

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