FORD releases F-150 LIGHTNING mini-Me “Maverick”

gphenix

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https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...with-standard-hybrid-40mpg-city-20k-msrp.164/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...erful-hybrid-pickup-truck/?comments=1&start=0

What’s really interesting is the comment section. ARSTECHNICA is a technology geek millennials hangout that HATES car reviews, ICE they hate on even harder. The comments have been flowing hot and heavy from “first post” positive!

Maverick smaller than FORD RANGER, is having a bit of a moment hitting millennials hot button issues in all areas.
My first thoughts are this. Do I want to go fast and not protect my occupants in the event of a crash, or be able to go fast for a longer period of time and still protect my occupants. I will stay with Cyber Truck. Now that I think about it. What will a beat up ole Ford be worth 5 years from now?
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https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...with-standard-hybrid-40mpg-city-20k-msrp.164/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...erful-hybrid-pickup-truck/?comments=1&start=0

What’s really interesting is the comment section. ARSTECHNICA is a technology geek millennials hangout that HATES car reviews, ICE they hate on even harder. The comments have been flowing hot and heavy from “first post” positive!

Maverick smaller than FORD RANGER, is having a bit of a moment hitting millennials hot button issues in all areas.
More free publicity "Hype" for something that doesn't even exist yet?
 

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Editors' Pick
Ford’s $20,000 Compact Maverick May Be Just Enough Pickup For Most Drivers
By Sam AbuelsamidSenior Contributor
Jun 8, 2021
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...nough-truck-for-most-drivers/?sh=58a57ac474ff


I do not understand all the gushing love for Ford regarding this "revolutionary" small Maverick pickup. Ford used to make similar size pickup before named Ranger. Ford is the one who decided to stop making the small size. Nobody forced Ford to stop making a small size pickup and many buyers wanted the small size all along. So Ford abandoned customers and after many many years is a genius for introducing a product it used to sell. Is this the type of thinking that is going to beat Tesla???

Ford had a pretty decent BEV pickup truck 20 years ago.

Then nothing for 20 years.


--------------------------

Did You Own An Ford Ranger EV, The Original Electric Ford Pickup?
By Raphael Orlove
6/01/21
https://jalopnik.com/did-you-own-an-ford-ranger-ev-the-original-electric-fo-1847008600

....
The Ranger also got a nickel-metal-hydride battery option later in its life that increased range up to 80 miles, and was significantly lighter. The weight savings even allowed the Ranger to match the 1,250-pound payload capacity of one of the gas Ranger configurations.

--------------------------

Ford Ranger EV
Model years 1998–2002
Assembly Edison, New Jersey, United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV

.....
The NiMH version delivered a true 65-mile (105 km) range at a steady 65 mph (105 km/h) speed on flat highways (normal operation with some reserve; in comparison the lead-acid version which is said to have a range of up to 65 miles (105 km) with hard tires and careful driving. Actual range of the lead-acid Ford Ranger EV is less).


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rr6013

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More free publicity "Hype" for something that doesn't even exist yet?
I hate PR pump and dump. Maverick story was about pent-up demand for a small International pickup version. It was germaine to a smaller version of Cybertruck - Wolverine.

Mini-me Lightning was, with great open reception, welcomed by people of every persuasion. Rare is it, to have the fortune shine on a product universally from socio-economic to a worldwide geographic.

FORD struck gold, the same as Mustang when it released in 1964 ½ yr. FORD double release back-to-back with a look alike mini version is a 2fer. Marketers will figure out how one played off the other.
 

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1yr ago, I thought same. I thought whole world would BEV. I agree electricity is easy! BUT its nigh impossible at scale.

Now I see how brittle has Panama an electric grid, that it goes down at first breeze, every storm and crashes hard overnight. No Teslas here. Closest is D.R. go figure. Ditto all of Central America, Africa exc S.A., South America and eastern EU. That’s a BIG footprint.

Elon is begging Nickel anywhere. Russia is even a hole card. The copper mine here in Panama sells ore which includes copper, nickel and gold. BEV have boosted its national GDP from 6% to 8% on inflation alone. There is a supply crunch in the near term for battery. No fooling…these events hit BEV fast as Tesla passes thru price increases.

That Goromine in New Caledonia? Aussies own it now, they process lead and will upgrade Goromine to increase its efficiency. That nickel is years away.

There are 400 BEV car models vying for a small amount of battery. Not all can be successful. Lucky will be half who make it to year 2125. Canoo is dead before it started - Apple thinks its CEO can make Apple car. Lordstown? Next. Apple is in no hurry – for good reason.

We have to recognize that the mythical BEV future is problematic. Rich, developed, wealthy and electrified grid countries will be the early adopters on the backs of whom the infrastructure will be built-out for BEV.

The rest of the world will be have-nots, unable to support BEV, compete on price nor finance any kind of transition off petroleum. Have-nots are simply petro-capture markets. Have-nots are decades away from BEV.

Bottomline is that Elon could not afford to transistion a USD economy country like Panama, much less take on lesser developed economies. These countries are out-of-reach. They belong to Hybrid at best, and hybrid isn’t all bad.
Too bad about Canoo if you are correct, I like some of their styling.
 

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The bed is 4.5 foot. That is pretty short.

The biggest problem is that it is a 100% fossil fuel powered vehicle.
In this day and age (2020s), we should be further along. For Ford to still be releasing new models of 100% fossil fuel powered vehicles is irresponsible.

It needed to be a plug-in hybrid with 60 mi range to be minimally acceptable to society based on our current pollution problems and future climate issues.
It is not possible for manufacturers to just wholesale switch 100% of their product line to EV all at once... it takes take time to redesign, retool, build battery plants, charging infrastructure etc. There are many EV trucks coming (like CT and Lightning), but for now the Maverick is a good bridge vehicle to that future.
Many countries are banning sales of ICE as of 2035, it should be pushed up by 5-7 years to accelerate the process.
 

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It is not possible for manufacturers to just wholesale switch 100% of their product line to EV all at once... it takes take time to redesign, retool, build battery plants, charging infrastructure etc. There are many EV trucks coming (like CT and Lightning), but for now the Maverick is a good bridge vehicle to that future.
Many countries are banning sales of ICE as of 2035, it should be pushed up by 5-7 years to accelerate the process.
A 2028 goal of no ICE sales is extremely optimistic. For one, you are saying that is for sales, so dealerships selling cars would have to clear their ICE stock beofre 2028? You can still find dealerships selling a new 2019 car that's never been driven. Also if we look at companies like Ford or GM, they could probably completely convert to EV's for all their passenger models by 2028. But we also have to consider smaller vehicle companies who might be years behind the larger companies. Not every company has a research and development budget to make an EV and they might need years to study existing EV's to properly start a small scale production of their own to later grow and completely switch over.

Another reason I don't think 2028 is very optimistic is because it's not just the manufacturers that need to switch over but also the rest of the world. by the time all new vehicles are all EV's, you're probably going to have half of all gas stations or more shut down and probably hundreds of thousands of charging stalls replacing them. While there will still be gas stations for the remaining ICE vehicles and other gasoline needs like lawnmowers and gas powered generators, there just wouldn't be enough business to support the vast amount of gas stations that are in service.

This will be a huge shift because a gas station might not just be able to convert to a successful fast charging station. Most gas stations have a little convenience store so people can fill up and grab a drink or a snack and be on their way. However since the average fast charging station that isn't Tesla is 20-50kWh, it would easily take around 30 minutes to a couple hours for someone to charge up. It's more viable for places like grocery stores, malls, city centers, and other similar locations to put up both level 2 charging areas and level 3 charging areas, where people are likely to spend the amount of time it takes their vehicle to charge.

The only exception I see to this is fast chargers that can actually match the charging speed of a Tesla Supercharger, since there isn't a lot to do other than quickly buy a couple things and use the washroom if your car is going to charge in around 15 minutes. I'm sure highway side gas stations will still do really well with or without anything nearby to do since it's usually just a convenient place to pull in and save time.

The only other thing I can think of is how dealerships will need to convert. They aren't as big of a company as a manufacturer, so for them to prepare for all their vehicles to be electric will require different infrastructure and more training for their staff.
 

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A 2028 goal of no ICE sales is extremely optimistic. For one, you are saying that is for sales, so dealerships selling cars would have to clear their ICE stock beofre 2028? You can still find dealerships selling a new 2019 car that's never been driven. Also if we look at companies like Ford or GM, they could probably completely convert to EV's for all their passenger models by 2028. But we also have to consider smaller vehicle companies who might be years behind the larger companies. Not every company has a research and development budget to make an EV and they might need years to study existing EV's to properly start a small scale production of their own to later grow and completely switch over.
......

The only other thing I can think of is how dealerships will need to convert. They aren't as big of a company as a manufacturer, so for them to prepare for all their vehicles to be electric will require different infrastructure and more training for their staff.
I don't disagree with you, I know that is an optimistic date but the sooner the better. Realistically I don't see any governments moving that quickly.

That is an interesting point about existing "new" cars that sit for a few years. I haven't read the details of all the 2035 ICE bans, but this must be accounted for? Maybe its that mfgs cannot produce ICE for sale from that point on... That existing stock of new will continue to be sold then operated until they reach the end of their useful lifespan.

Dealers make serious coin on their maintenance business, I'm not sure what is going to replace that. Not that EVs are free from that, but its a lot less moving parts to wear and break down. The network is still pretty important for that though, parts/installation/recalls/warranty etc.
 

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I don't disagree with you, I know that is an optimistic date but the sooner the better. Realistically I don't see any governments moving that quickly.

That is an interesting point about existing "new" cars that sit for a few years. I haven't read the details of all the 2035 ICE bans, but this must be accounted for? Maybe its that mfgs cannot produce ICE for sale from that point on... That existing stock of new will continue to be sold then operated until they reach the end of their useful lifespan.

Dealers make serious coin on their maintenance business, I'm not sure what is going to replace that. Not that EVs are free from that, but its a lot less moving parts to wear and break down. The network is still pretty important for that though, parts/installation/recalls/warranty etc.
Limiting just manufacturers from producing ICE vehicles would definitely be a more reaslistic thing to do.

The change for dealerships is going to be massive since you are right that most of their profit often comes from maintenance. I started learning how to fix cars since before highschool, I took shop in highschool, I did coops at a garage in my last two years of high school, and I worked in a garage my first two years of university. I'm hoping that I never have an issue with software or the battery since I'll be clueless for the first time.

Small repair shops will probably hurt the most. Imagine just becoming a mechanic today, or even just starting the process to become a mechanic today and within the next 5 years we might see closer to 50% of the new vehicles on the road become electric. Small shops will rely on people keeping their EV's for as long as possible.
 

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It is not possible for manufacturers to just wholesale switch 100% of their product line to EV all at once... it takes take time to redesign, retool, build battery plants, charging infrastructure etc. There are many EV trucks coming (like CT and Lightning), but for now the Maverick is a good bridge vehicle to that future.
Many countries are banning sales of ICE as of 2035, it should be pushed up by 5-7 years to accelerate the process.

It was not all at once. They already had 20 years.
They keep dragging things out and then use the dragged out time as an excuse of why they must take even longer.

There should be NO new ICE or straight hybrid models sold after 2026. There are plenty of ICE & non-plugin hybrid models already developed they should not be developing more models (ie. Ford Maverick non-plugin hybrid). Starting 2027, full BEV or plug-in hybrid (minimum 60mi range). After 2035 no plug-in hybrids either.
 

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It was not all at once. They already had 20 years.
They keep dragging things out and then use the dragged out time as an excuse of why they must take even longer.

There should be NO new ICE or straight hybrid models sold after 2026. There are plenty of ICE & non-plugin hybrid models already developed they should not be developing more models (ie. Ford Maverick non-plugin hybrid). Starting 2027, full BEV or plug-in hybrid (minimum 60mi range). After 2035 no plug-in hybrids either.
If I can't get my single motor CT in a timely manner I might just buy a new ICE truck to replace my 2006 Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner. Tacoma has been a solid performer for me all these years. Maybe the value of a used Truck would be of solid value again in the long run as ICE vehicles are phased out?
 
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It was not all at once. They already had 20 years.
They keep dragging things out and then use the dragged out time as an excuse of why they must take even longer.

There should be NO new ICE or straight hybrid models sold after 2026. There are plenty of ICE & non-plugin hybrid models already developed they should not be developing more models (ie. Ford Maverick non-plugin hybrid). Starting 2027, full BEV or plug-in hybrid (minimum 60mi range). After 2035 no plug-in hybrids either.
Yeah that's definitely not going to happen. They haven't had 20 years because for most areas of the market, this wasn't a very viable option. Even now, going into 2022, an electric work truck isn't completely viable for everyone who needs one and an electric car isn't viable for everyone because there isn't an affordable one with a long enough range and a good enough fast charging network to support everyones needs.

Like imagine construction workers in the winter who have a job far out of town and they have to commute there daily with all their tools and supplies. The 300 mile range that a lot of electric trucks are being advertised as, would be reduced a lot from winter, than more due to their equipment, and non tesla fast chargers could take a few hours to fully charge their truck.

You can also imagine people who commute far distances in a car, or taxi drivers, or people who get most their income from rideshare programs like uber. If they can't afford one of the high end EV's, they are stuck with a couple hundred miles of range. Imagine a New York taxi driver with 200 miles of range in the winter, where passengers want the heat turned up. That driver will probably get less than 100 miles of use in the traffic due to all the energy lost from heating. Not to mention that a taxi/uber driver has to keep their tank/battery as high as possible when working because a big far that's going out of town can be their best fare of the day. Doesn't really help them if someone wants to go 50 miles of range and the driver doesn't have the range to get there. Unlike with a gas car that can fill up in a couple of minutes, no paying customer wants to wait 15 minutes for the driver to charge up.

Before EV's are the only vehicles being sold, we need more affordable cars with better range, and a better charging network. We can't just tell people that they either get a car with no range or they have to spend $50,000+ on a vehicle that gets them the range they need. Also Tesla can't be the only option for people who need a better charging network. 4 years might be enough time for the big companies to catch up, but smaller companies won't even be able to begin converting until these things are already in place.
 

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Yeah that's definitely not going to happen. They haven't had 20 years because for most areas of the market, this wasn't a very viable option. Even now, going into 2022, an electric work truck isn't completely viable for everyone who needs one and an electric car isn't viable for everyone because there isn't an affordable one with a long enough range and a good enough fast charging network to support everyones needs.

Like imagine construction workers in the winter who have a job far out of town and they have to commute there daily with all their tools and supplies. The 300 mile range that a lot of electric trucks are being advertised as, would be reduced a lot from winter, than more due to their equipment, and non tesla fast chargers could take a few hours to fully charge their truck.

You can also imagine people who commute far distances in a car, or taxi drivers, or people who get most their income from rideshare programs like uber. If they can't afford one of the high end EV's, they are stuck with a couple hundred miles of range. Imagine a New York taxi driver with 200 miles of range in the winter, where passengers want the heat turned up. That driver will probably get less than 100 miles of use in the traffic due to all the energy lost from heating. Not to mention that a taxi/uber driver has to keep their tank/battery as high as possible when working because a big far that's going out of town can be their best fare of the day. Doesn't really help them if someone wants to go 50 miles of range and the driver doesn't have the range to get there. Unlike with a gas car that can fill up in a couple of minutes, no paying customer wants to wait 15 minutes for the driver to charge up.

Before EV's are the only vehicles being sold, we need more affordable cars with better range, and a better charging network. We can't just tell people that they either get a car with no range or they have to spend $50,000+ on a vehicle that gets them the range they need. Also Tesla can't be the only option for people who need a better charging network. 4 years might be enough time for the big companies to catch up, but smaller companies won't even be able to begin converting until these things are already in place.

My point was NO ICE only vehicles & NO non-plugin hybrids.

All the work truck cases you mentioned could be done with plug-in hybrid (60 mi minimum).
Plug-in hybrid (60 mi minimum) has been economically practical for over 5 years.

All fossil fuel users (including myself) are free-loading on the system. Fossil fuel ICE vehicle prices & fossil fuel user fuel prices do not pay for the health damage done to others.

If fossil fuel ICE vehicle prices & fossil fuel prices were set for reality, years ago BEV prices would have been lower than ICE.
 

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No.

Induced demand is great stimulus. Necessity is the mother of invention, they say.

Once the false competition of companies sitting on their laurels printing old engines is out, then new solutions will be had.

We can't wait until the perfect set of solution comes along. Besides, the more BEVs on the market, the more fall in price or end up on the used market.

-Crissa
 
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