Gas prices

[JBee]

I'm just saying that a cabin comfortable for six is much larger than a cabin comfortable for four.

And bigger means more weight, more energy, slower charging, lower range.

-Crissa

You're essentially arguing the efficiency difference between a Model Y with 5 or 7 seats.

Having a large boot instead, without seats, doesn't by itself add any value, if the alternative can carry two extra people more efficiently, especially so if another entire car would be required to carry a single family. Aerodynamically, you can make it 2, 4 or 6 seater without any extra energy consumption, and not all passengers in a family are typically adult sized all at the same time. There is also a minimal to no weight penalty if the seats are mounted on a removable rail system.

Likewise there is minimal impact on charge rate or range or even cost for that matter by using a monospace design.

Sponsored

 

[Crissa]

No, having a larger vehicle costs more. More to make, more the carry, and more to stop.

It's why globally most cars are smaller than a Model Y.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

No, having a larger vehicle costs more. More to make, more the carry, and more to stop.

It's why globally most cars are smaller than a Model Y.

-Crissa

Do you know what a monospace car design actually is?

How much it costs depends on what it is made of and how its made. You can reduce material costs, but it is better and much more effective to reduce manufacturing costs instead, as the material cost of most cars is trivial in comparison to its manufacturing cost.

Cars are not made out of gemstones and gold. Calculate for me the difference please and you will see yourself.

For example which one of these two vehicles weighs more?
1.

Or
2.

Guess which one uses less fuel? Which one costs less?
Why do you think I own the later and not the former?
Physics favours no opinion.

 

[firsttruck]

Do you know what a monospace car design actually is?

How much it costs depends on what it is made of and how its made. You can reduce material costs, but it is better and much more effective to reduce manufacturing costs instead, as the material cost of most cars is trivial in comparison to its manufacturing cost.

Cars are not made out of gemstones and gold. Calculate for me the difference please and you will see yourself.

For example which one of these two vehicles weighs more?
1.

Or
2.

Guess which one uses less fuel? Which one costs less?
Why do you think I own the later and not the former?
Physics favours no opinion.

To do proper Physics comparison you must be doing apples to apples comparison.

There are many factors involved besides frontal area.

Is the van using smaller diameter tires?

Is the van using narrower tires

Is the Expedition using a gas guzzling high-performance engine that consumes more fuel even at idle and not moving?

There are many more variables that need to be controlled for to do a proper comparison.

 

[Crissa]

Isn't what matters is the total cost of ownership?

If you choose a larger vehicle, you'll be paying to drag it around at all points in time, whether loaded or not.

The bigger it is, the more you pay.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

...

For example which one of these two vehicles weighs more?
1.

Or
2.

Guess which one uses less fuel? Which one costs less?
Why do you think I own the later and not the former?
Physics favours no opinion.

The Ford Transit van you're picturing weighs a literal ton more than the Ford Expedition pictured (it's the fancy 9-11k pounds one). Which itself thousand more than the Explorer, which weighs twice as much as the Escape.

And that's before we get into their air resistance, which matters more at speed.

-Crissa

PS: I'm not sure what you're arguing now. Examples are fraught with as @firsttruck pointed out, lots of little things which chance their relative cost and efficiency. Lots of those won't matter as much when you get down into the efficiency of EVs like Cybertruck.

 

[happy intruder]

For what it's worth, a bit of nostalgia...I remember paying .37 cents a gallon when I was a kid in High School. Plenty of money left over for a six pack of Mickey's Big Mouth and a trip thru the Jack in the Box late at night to quell a case of the munchies. I've had many "Air breathers" in my soon to be 69 years on this planet. I will be the coolest Senior on my block when I drive my CyberTruck around the neighborhood!

Photo with my posting is my 1979 VW Deluxe Bus that I brought back to running condition and sold when we purchased a Tesla Model 3 for my beautiful wife. That's her baby

I remember in high school when premium was $0.389.....My '67 GTO white goat ate like a pig......but oh what a car......sold it after senior year in college so my wife could drive when I went to flight school......she is 5'-0" and when she pushed in clutch, she went back in seat and could not reach pedals.........but I got you beat on my street, 73 in may

 

[Sirfun]

That's one of the things I saw in the Cybertruck. With the vault it is the ultimate utility vehicle. It will do anything you want to do "except haul 7 passengers". But there are lots of people who drive minivans without the need for even 5 passengers. I sincerely hope there's a midgate to make it even more capable. There is really something to be said for having a vehicle that you can securely take all your stuff in. And the Cybertruck will do that, ANYWHERE you want to go!
The Cybertruck, could be very much like the old panel trucks.

 

[Old Pro]

I remember in high school when premium was $0.389.....My '67 GTO white goat ate like a pig......but oh what a car......sold it after senior year in college so my wife could drive when I went to flight school......she is 5'-0" and when she pushed in clutch, she went back in seat and could not reach pedals.........but I got you beat on my street, 73 in may

I turn 69 on Friday the 13th!

 

[happy intruder]

I turn 69 on Friday the 13th!

great numbers !!

 

[JBee]

The Ford Transit van you're picturing weighs a literal ton more than the Ford Expedition pictured (it's the fancy 9-11k pounds one). Which itself thousand more than the Explorer, which weighs twice as much as the Escape.

And that's before we get into their air resistance, which matters more at speed.

-Crissa

PS: I'm not sure what you're arguing now. Examples are fraught with as @firsttruck pointed out, lots of little things which chance their relative cost and efficiency. Lots of those won't matter as much when you get down into the efficiency of EVs like Cybertruck.

So the VW Crafter van depicted weighs some 150kg less than the Expedition when empty. It's not a Ford Transit van, rather a front wheel drive diesel powered euro built van. It can also load up to 1400kg, nearly twice as much as the Expedition. All in a body that is 7 times the usable interior volume, and they both consume a similar amount of fuel/energy, with the Crafter being a little bit less. Top speed is limited to 170kmh, but can handle up to 14 seats in the bus version. It also come in a 4X4 version that consumes a little more as it turns off the rear axle on-road.

From the above it's quite easy to see that it is in fact possible to propel a much larger vehicle with a much larger payload mass using less vehicle overall. The reason is as previously, that scaling improves efficiency, even more so if you do a per person analysis, as the aero area does not increase by much, and a longer body can improve Cd compared to a shorter body. Hence length and volume need not need to add energy consumption.

If you like I can add a comparison between van/truck/train so you gain more perspective on how scaling works, if designed right.


In regards to per mile cost, this is also better with the crafter with longer service intervals, lower tyre use and cost, and much further expected lifetime (3-400,00km before rebuild) because it's a commercial vehicle running an industrial rated engine. Obviously electric would improve this advantage further.

I'm pretty confident that Tesla van, if not limited in aero design as the CT is, will consume as much as the CT, or barely any more, despite having a much larger interior volume., and possibly a higher payload.

Heaps of interior space for first class travelling with bathroom in the back...

 

[Crissa]

So the VW Crafter van depicted weighs some 150kg less than
...
Heaps of interior space for first class travelling with bathroom in the back...

...Not after you put all that stuff in it.

-Crissa

Sponsored