firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
778
Reaction score
956
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
This is weird, I though most newer cars could charge at 150 kW. The brand new Bolt only charged at 50 kW max. That is crazy with current competition. This isn’t even the outgoing 2021, it’s the brand new 2022.
It's battery is 75% of the size of the Model Y.

It charges at 20% of the speed of the Model Y. That is slow.

If you are road tripping, Bolt owners are going to spend much more time at the charging stations. I figured newer cars wouldn't bump into Teslas "Slow charging cars pay more" issue, apparently the Bolt is going to bump into that.
Yup, and Wall Street still tell us the traditional car companies with 100 years of experience are coming as competitors. Tesla beware. What jokes.
Advertisement

 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,952
Reaction score
7,820
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
As I pointed out before, their 'time' charges will not be per-minute, because that's illegal in several states (including California).

More likely it will be a surcharge on sitting there longer than a half-hour. That's that standard charge-time for a Bolt on a road-trip, since it can get its maximum charge rate to 60% and just move on to the next charger.

And no, the long range Bolt doesn't have a 57kWh battery.

-Crissa
 
OP
OP
Ogre

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,263
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
As I pointed out before, their 'time' charges will not be per-minute, because that's illegal in several states (including California).

More likely it will be a surcharge on sitting there longer than a half-hour. That's that standard charge-time for a Bolt on a road-trip, since it can get its maximum charge rate to 60% and just move on to the next charger.

And no, the long range Bolt doesn't have a 57kWh battery.

-Crissa
A charge for sitting longer than 30 minutes would be good all around. Some existing users leave their cars for too long.

I wonder if increasing the rate per kWh after 30 minutes is legal.

While that extra 15 minutes may not seem long when you are charging, you are also causing the next guy in the queue to wait another 15 minutes which is extremely frustrating.
 
Last edited:

tmeyer3

Well-known member
First Name
Trevor
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Messages
292
Reaction score
536
Location
CA
Vehicles
Model 3, Wrangler, Tractors
Occupation
Computer Scientist
Country flag
Here's the data folks! This is from 2018, which I realize is out of date, so spare me please lol
Screenshot_20210728-141918.png

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/evs-percent-of-vehicle-sales-by-brand/

The 2018 experience at superchargers represents more than 50% of all EVs in the US. The WORST it could get if all BEVs could use Tesla superchargers at the time this was published would be less than twice as busy. But in reality, less than half of the non Tesla BEVs couldn't go a significant enough distance to even reach more than one supercharger, much less go on a road trip.

Am I missing something? I'm supremely unconcerned
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Ogre

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,263
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
But in reality, less than half of the non Tesla BEVs could go a significant enough distance to even reach more than one supercharger, much less go on a road trip.
ROFL.

The numbers have gotten worse since then. That was like peak non Tesla. LEAF sales and Bolt sales are flat or declined. I3 sales are done. Tesla is now selling 7 in 10 EVs would be more if they could make them
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,952
Reaction score
7,820
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Most of the EVs on that list do not have CCS or CHAdeMO, and hence, will not be able to use Superchargers.

-Crissa
 

Red61224

Well-known member
First Name
Mr.
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
209
Reaction score
259
Location
Florida
Vehicles
CT3
Country flag
This is weird, I though most newer cars could charge at 150 kW. The brand new Bolt only charged at 50 kW max. That is crazy with current competition. This isn’t even the outgoing 2021, it’s the brand new 2022.
Bolts, what will be done with them. Just make sure to stay clear of them if you value your vehicle, maybe keep an extra "out of order" sign in the frunk to ward of toasty Bolts.
 

Red61224

Well-known member
First Name
Mr.
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
209
Reaction score
259
Location
Florida
Vehicles
CT3
Country flag
"All in all this is great news. An adapter solution could be out there in months allowing Rivian users to charge anywhere a Tesla can if at, initially, somewhat lower power.

I'll be back here to eat my words if I wind up in a queue at the Baie St. Paul SC."
[/QUOTE]
Not to worry A.J. there's always PLAN "B".

1627849272828.png
 
OP
OP
Ogre

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,263
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Bolts, what will be done with them. Just make sure to stay clear of them if you value your vehicle, maybe keep an extra "out of order" sign in the frunk to ward of toasty Bolts.
It’s too bad Chevy had already used “Spark” for a vehicle name, would have been a battery name for the Bolt.

Is the Bolt the Chevy Pinto of the EV world?
 

rlhamil

Active member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Apr 1, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
49
Location
Glen Burnie, Maryland
Vehicles
2002 Trans Am WS6, 2007 PT Cruiser GT
Occupation
retired
Country flag
A charge for sitting longer than 30 minutes would be good all around. Some existing users leave their cars for too long.

I wonder if increasing the rate per kWh after 30 minutes is legal.

While that extra 15 minutes may not seem long when you are charging, you are also causing the next guy in the queue to wait another 15 minutes which is extremely frustrating.
I'd just as soon see a few more chargers at each location, and a lesser of 45 min or full limit (plus a couple minutes to respond to notification and disconnect and move the vehicle) before overtime fees kick in. Why? Because a 30 minute break is the MINIMUM for commercial drivers, and because it's like a 30 minute work lunch break, rather rushed and not particularly healthy wolfing down food that fast. Some people will be fine with 30 minutes, both for charge and break, some won't. Not all those who take a bit longer are dawdling or being intentionally rude. And good luck getting hot food at a busy roadside rest stop with less than half that break taken just waiting.
 
OP
OP
Ogre

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,263
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
I'd just as soon see a few more chargers at each location, and a lesser of 45 min or full limit (plus a couple minutes to respond to notification and disconnect and move the vehicle) before overtime fees kick in. Why? Because a 30 minute break is the MINIMUM for commercial drivers, and because it's like a 30 minute work lunch break, rather rushed and not particularly healthy wolfing down food that fast. Some people will be fine with 30 minutes, both for charge and break, some won't. Not all those who take a bit longer are dawdling or being intentionally rude. And good luck getting hot food at a busy roadside rest stop with less than half that break taken just waiting.
Having a time based element to charging rates only makes sense in cases where there is congestion.

As you suggest, ideally, more chargers Is better, with enough chargers, nobody is waiting. Also, if there are empty charger stalls at the charging location, then any time based fees don’t make sense.

But if the charger station is full, then some kind of time based metering makes sense. I’m not sure what the ideal charge duration is, but it should be based on how long it takes to charge the car, not how long it takes to get served at the Chili’s next door. With a 150kW charge rate, most current gen EVs can be at 80% charge in under half an hour. At a 250kW charge rate, things happen even faster. After 80% charge state, the charge rate tapers fast.

Again… this only makes sense when there is congestion.

The way I see it is if you’ve been parked there for XX minutes or more and all the stalls are filled, the app would ping you and let you know the site is congested and give you 5 minutes to clear out, then if you fail to move you’d get charged a congestion fee of $5-10. If after another 15 minutes and every 15 minutes after that, you are still camping the stall and the site is still congested, it repeats the warning and fees.
 
Last edited:

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,950
Reaction score
3,145
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
Let's review how it works now. You arrive and tell the car the SoC you want and waddle off to the bagel shop. Ten minutes before the charge is at your specified level you get a message that the charge will complete in 10 min. If the station is less than half full you need do nothing as the charge will terminate and no idle fees will accrue. You can stay where you are and finish your bagel.You can reason "I can't drive til I finish my bagel and as I'm at a SuperCharger I might as well take on some extra charge while I'm feeding my face" up the charge level and take on more charge. You have just moved "leisurely lunch" ahead of "fastest charging possible" in your priority list.

If the station is more than half full and you are a jerk you can do the same thing. No idle fees are charged until the new limit is reached but at some chargers the new limit can't be set beyond 80%.

The decent fellow wraps his bagel in a napkin, takes it out to the car, moves the car when charging is complete and then finishes his bagel.

The whole idea of enjoying a leisurely dinner while your car charges goes back to the old IBM "If you can't fix it, feature it" mantra. I've been able to relax and enjoy a full meal exactly once in Moosic, PA. Probably not Tesla's busiest SC. Not another Tesla in sight, at least not at 7:30 on a weekday night.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Ogre

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,263
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
The whole idea of enjoying a leisurely dinner while your car charges goes back to the old IBM "If you can't fix it, feature it" mantra. I've been able to relax and enjoy a full meal exactly once in Moosic, PA. Probably not Tesla's busiest SC. Not another Tesla in sight, at least not at 7:30 on a weekday night.
Last time I hit the Supercharger there were 2 empty stalls when I rolled up. I decided I’d grab an ice cream and do a quick bit of shopping while the car charges. Milk-shake finished, shopping in hand, I return to the car 40 minutes later and there were 6 cars waiting in line. I was overnighting in the car that night so felt justified for wanting the car to be at 95% charge when I left, but I still felt like a complete ass.

I have hit Superchargers which were empty and I felt ok doing some leisurely shopping, and hanging out, but from now on, I’m setting the charge goal and will at the very least check the station is half empty before re-upping the time.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top