Non-FS trucks being configured with "Base Autopilot"?

[eswimm]

Okay, maybe I wasn't clear. Let's start from the beginning.

• CT is now capable of FSD. Yay.
• After some testing, I'm personally not comfortable with the capabilities of FSD as of this build. In my seat time it's ran over two curbs, drifted out of a lane, it doesn't keep speed up hills, and is generally way too slow making turns to keep up with traffic. (As I've said before, if/when FSD is good enough* this entire thread becomes moot.)
• "Base Autopilot" which is available standard with the cheapest Tesla (and is listed as equipped on non-FS trucks that don't purchase FSD) only does lane keeping and maintaining following distance. If you want to make a turn, you have to shut it off but it won't try to make turns for you. It's capabilities are well understood but also well-trusted. Our FS trucks don't have this feature, oddly.
• I attempted to see if FSD would behave similar enough to "Base Autopilot" if you drove around with it without a destination programmed in. It generally follows the road but also starts doing weird things. So my conclusion to this question is "No", FSD without a destination programmed in is not a good substitute for Base Autopilot.
• This suggests the need for Base Autopilot as an option on these trucks, and also begs my original question - what will non-FS trucks not equipped with FSD actually get when they press the right scroll wheel? Will they get true Base Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer)?

Of course FSD is getting better and better with each build and I'm excited for when the time comes that I can actually relax and let the truck take me somewhere. But at this time, it actually adds more stress because I'm constantly hovering over the steering wheel and brake pedal, holding my breath at every corner it takes, pressing down the gas pedal to get it up to the speed that I set, and waiting for it to do something dangerous/stupid that I have to jump in and save it from. So I'd rather it do *less*, but do it really well. And to me, that's Base Autopilot.

*I realize that "good enough" is different for each person, and depends on many variables such as driving conditions (I am up driving before the sun and FSD is pure vision-based), location (Seattle-area traffic and roads are famously challenging), and our own expectations (Speed Profile is not yet available), among other things.

I don't think you're ever going to get the old base autopilot stack. It's pretty clear that Tesla's direction is the new single stack and while older vehicles can currently fall back to the older stack, that stack does not exist on the CT and there's absolutely no signs that Tesla is bringing it here.

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[IronJoe]

I don't think you're ever going to get the old base autopilot stack. It's pretty clear that Tesla's direction is the new single stack and while older vehicles can currently fall back to the older stack, that stack does not exist on the CT and there's absolutely no signs that Tesla is bringing it here.

I totally agree about the old sw stack - there are plenty of things it can't do and Tesla of all companies won't want to look backward if they can avoid it.

I guess at this point the best short-term option would be for FSD to have a more predictable "autopilot-like" behavior when executed without a destination. Don't have it try turning or changing lanes, just keep you in the lane and maintain following distance. I could see that being a very likely way to handle it.

 

[CyberGus]

I engaged FSD without a destination it on a main road in my town, and with no traffic around, the car not only changed lanes by itself, it also put its turn signal on and started turning at random! With zero input from me.

I wondered about this. I did the same thing on the freeway this weekend, but it didn't exit. It just acted like autopilot for 30 or so miles.

I activated FSD with no destination on the highway, and it happily acted like TACC, making lane changes to pass slower traffic. It never tried to take an exit, but I didn't get to any ambiguous choices like highway splits. I eventually just hit "home" on the nav, which it then followed.

Later, on city streets, I activated "aimless FSD" and it obeyed my turn signals. I never saw it trying to guess my destination, though hahahahaha

 

[Woodrick]

Okay, maybe I wasn't clear. Let's start from the beginning.

• CT is now capable of FSD. Yay.
• After some testing, I'm personally not comfortable with the capabilities of FSD as of this build.

It takes time to learn how FSD drives. A few hours or days isn't enough to learn when to trust it and when not to.

If you aren't comfortable, that's fine, that's a personal preference.

But after a few weeks of driving on the latest version I haven't had any deaths, damage, or incidents. And it's done the vast majority of my driving with my hands in my lap.

I've learned to drive FSD over its lifetime and know what it can do.

 

[IronJoe]

It takes time to learn how FSD drives. A few hours or days isn't enough to learn when to trust it and when not to.

If you aren't comfortable, that's fine, that's a personal preference.

But after a few weeks of driving on the latest version I haven't had any deaths, damage, or incidents. And it's done the vast majority of my driving with my hands in my lap.

I've learned to drive FSD over its lifetime and know what it can do.

First: Not first Tesla nor my first FSD. I've had FSD purchased back when Tesla was still on HW2.5 and have driven on every iteration of FSD and Autopilot since AP1 on the Model S.

It's funny, I decided to go for another drive before responding here. The result of my 20 minute drive home with destination plugged in? Four FSD disengagements, one that would absolutely have led to a significant at-fault accident.

We have several roundabouts in our town and they're impossible to avoid. Coming back from picking up my daughter at school, Cybertruck did not stop for a school bus that was already in the roundabout. I knew roundabouts are "tricky" for FSD so I of course was attentive and ready (I've never had a single strike against me in FSD on any of our cars) and decided to "see" what the truck would do. I saw the school bus coming around the roundabout, waited until the exact last moment before it was clear the truck was intent on entering the roundabout and crashing into the bus - prompting me to slam on the brakes and take over.

The bus driver gave me a disgusted look as if I was just not paying attention. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I provide feedback whenever there is a disengagement. The other three were nominal issues - slowing down up hills, not keeping speed even after the accelerator is pressed to bring it up to speed, straddling the middle of the road on a street without painted lines, that sort of thing. I can live with those issues as growing pains.

The point of all this is: Basic autopilot can't do nearly as much, but I'd argue that what it does, it does better. FSD has the capability to do much more however, it's still a "gamble" as to whether or not it would actually complete the task safely. Today would have been an at-fault accident for me, my truck out of commission for possibly months, and potentially injured children who were riding and/or my family in the car with me. Until FSD's capabilities are more reliable, I'd like to see a reduced feature set option that can actually perform reliably.

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