Not sure about the excitement regarding crab walk feature..

[Charles]

Who cares about crab walk feature if it will increase the cost of Cybertruck to who knows what. What percent of future cyber truck owners really care about this feature. The quad motor buzz should be more about increased towing range and the other obvious advantages. I would be happy to keep the $69k Tri motor @ 500 mile range.

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[Ogre]

Who cares about crab walk feature if it will increase the cost of Cybertruck to who knows what. What percent of future cyber truck owners really care about this feature. The quad motor buzz should be more about increased towing range and the other obvious advantages. I would be happy to keep the $69k Tri motor @ 500 mile range.

Crab walk is a side-show (get it… crab walk… side show… never mind).

4 Wheel steering is what is interesting. Steering radius is one of the Achilles heals of long wheelbase trucks. It makes tight turns near impossible and parking a pain in the ass. Crab walk is almost a freebee with 4 wheel steering. Just a matter of having a (virtual) button to push to activate it.

I would be quite happy with the 500 mile tri motor as well. Or even dual motor 500 mile range myself. But getting 4 wheel steering is quite nice.

 

[FutureBoy]

Who cares about crab walk feature if it will increase the cost of Cybertruck to who knows what. What percent of future cyber truck owners really care about this feature. The quad motor buzz should be more about increased towing range and the other obvious advantages. I would be happy to keep the $69k Tri motor @ 500 mile range.

If the price and range do not change at all, would you be interested in getting the crab walk feature for free? Or even if you don't care about the feature itself, if the price and range don't change, do you care if you have the crab walk feature on your truck?

 

[Ogre]

Also, we don’t know what effect quad motor will have any towing, range, or pretty much anything!

We all sort of assume it will be even faster and perhaps a tiny bit better off-road. But even that is mostly assumption. The extra weight from the motor might well reduce cargo capacity and range for all we know.

 

[John K]

Crab walk is not dependent on 4 motors. I have little interest in it.

4 wheel steering has my interest.

Since 1 motor meets my needs, splurged and reserved duo for the spec boost. 4 motors is a waste on me and monthly insurance but, the heart wants it.

Now, I am trying to convince my wife, we should go camping instead of staying in a hotel. Need to be ready for quad, with some sake bottle, and I will upgrade. ?

 

[firsttruck]

All this fuss about crab-mode is overwrought.

What GM called "crab-mode" is just marketing name for a configuration used for highspeed lane change one of the standard modes available in most 4-wheel steer systems.
As usual GM marketing fails by not highlighting the most common benefit for trucks owners.

The most common usage of the mode is when on highway and changing lanes especially when towing trailer. Using the mode while towing trailer results in smoother lane change with less trailer sway.

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General Motors Quadrasteer Technology is 20 years old and owners still using it.

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4 wheel steering on trucks helps with
1. turning into parking slot in parking lots with narrow lanes
2. turning right on intersections with tight corners and narrow lanes
3. towing at high-speed and lane change
4. low speed towing forward and turns
5. low speed towing backing up and turning
6. higher payload & towing GCWR (gross combined weight rating)

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*** great article with diagrams of how it worked

General Motors Quadrasteer Technology
https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gen...chassis-suspension-technology/gm-quadrasteer/

Benefits
Quadrasteer benefits can be realized while parking and towing.
Turning Circle with Quadrasteer
Compared to vehicles without Quadrasteer, vehicles with the feature have a smaller turning radius. This can be very handy for big vehicles such as pickup trucks and SUVs when parking in small spaces. In addition, a smaller turning circle is particularly useful for those who tow boats, fifth wheels, or other large equipment, as it enables easier maneuverability when towing and parking.

The Quadrasteer system adds about 285 pounds of additional weight to the truck but gives back this amount and more in additional towing and hauling capabilities over the C3. The rear axle’s weight rating increases by 250 pounds to 4,000 pounds and maximum GCWR (gross combined weight rating) climbs from 14,000 to 16,000 pounds. Trailering capacity has increased from 8,700 pounds to 10,000 pounds. The wider rear axle also provides more stability when towing.

** this same range as Cybertruck & many Ford Superduty 2500 pickup trucks.

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Chevy's Quadrasteer: Four-wheel steering makes this rig ideal for tugging trailers.
By Drew Hardin
September 18, 2007
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gear/2007/09/chevys-quadrasteer/

.....
new Quadrasteer option available on some 2003 Chevrolet Silverado pickups. A steering rack on the rear axle controls the direction of the back wheels, steering them in a direction opposite the front wheels at low speeds, and in the same direction at highway speeds. The low-speed operation cuts the Silverado's turning circle to a compact-sedan-like 37 feet, while the high-speed function increases stability during lane changes and other maneuvers.

.....
A Trailer Puller's Dream
We found the low-speed mode particularly helpful, as the smaller turning circle made this long-wheelbase truck more nimble than it used to be. If you pull a trailer, you'll like how the rear-steer feels on the highway, but be prepared to practice backing up to get the hang of how the rear-steer moves the trailer tongue around.

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Denali Swoops Into Tight Spaces Thanks to Quadrasteer System
By Jonathan WelshStaff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
March 1, 2002
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1014926541434987080

.....
Being able to handle a full-size pickup truck used to be a point of pride: Parking took the strength of a weightlifter. Backing a trailer down a boat ramp took the timing of a shortstop.

Now, General Motors says, it has the truck for everyone else -- the GMC Sierra Denali, with a new steering system called Quadrasteer. Its gimmick: All four wheels -- not just the front two -- turn when you crank the wheel, allowing the big rig to maneuver more like a smaller car. Yes, it's handy for off-roading and towing big trailers. But what seems to matter most is that it lets the new Denali swoop into tight parking spots without those old-style 20-point turns.

.....
At high speeds, Quadrasteer turns the rear wheels in the same direction as the front wheels, although at a lesser angle, which makes changing lanes on the highway surprisingly smooth. At low speeds, the rear wheels go in the opposite direction, giving the truck a 37-foot turning circle -- about 10 feet less than a standard-steering Sierra.

.....
Behind the WheelFour-wheel steering makes this big pickup handle like a small car in parking lots, and makes towing easier.


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EXCLUSIVE! Is This The Future Of Trucks? We Put Rear Wheel Steering Through a Battery of Tests!
Aug 31, 2019
The Fast Lane Truck

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20 years ago GM marketing fails by not highlighting the most common benefit for trucks owners.

Will Quadrasteer have a second life for Extreme Towing and Handling
I miss Quadrasteer, it was a travesty the way Delphi and GM dropped the ball on the greatest truck improvement ever invited. MrTruck tells the story of Quadrasteer. ZF has a rear steer project that may finish the job Quadrasteer started. I wrote several articles about Quadrasteer.
By MrTruck
Sep 7, 2019

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[rr6013]

Who cares about crab walk feature if it will increase the cost of Cybertruck to who knows what. What percent of future cyber truck owners really care about this feature. The quad motor buzz should be more about increased towing range and the other obvious advantages. I would be happy to keep the $69k Tri motor @ 500 mile range.

Agreed. I could care less about walking crab-like.

BUT BEV’s are super aerodynamic dependent for RANGE.

Think “trim”! 4XS at each wheel enables the computer to angle the Cybertruck exoskeleton ever so slightly into an off-angle wind to maximize aerodynamic efficiency.

Doglegged viewed from rear but yep that Cybertruck is driving staight in its lane just crabbed into the apparent wind. CT will minimize the angle of attack to the wind.

Easily crabbing into the wind to reduce drag enables Cybertruck to effectively lower its drag rationwithout changing its design. I bet it can amount to 20%lower drag at times.

 

[Ogre]

Agreed. I could care less about walking crab-like.

BUT BEV’s are super aerodynamic dependent for RANGE.

Think “trim”! 4XS at each wheel enables the computer to angle the Cybertruck exoskeleton ever so slightly into an off-angle wind to maximize aerodynamic efficiency.

Doglegged viewed from rear but yep that Cybertruck is driving staight in its lane just crabbed into the apparent wind. CT will minimize the angle of attack to the wind.

Easily crabbing into the wind to reduce drag enables Cybertruck to effectively lower its drag rationwithout changing its design. I bet it can amount to 20%lower drag at times.

Neat idea… but even if you had a 50 mile an hour quartering headwind I doubt you’d get 20% lower drag.

 

[firsttruck]

Rear wheel steer for many larger BEVs sedans & SUVs not just BEV trucks


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AKC 2.0: The success story continues
The AKC rear axle steering from ZF is advantageous in almost every driving situation. At low speeds it reduces the turning radius; at high speeds it increases driving stability. The improved second generation of AKC makes it easier to integrate automated driving functions. It is also ideal for battery-powered vehicles with long wheelbases.
ZF Group
Oct 28, 2021

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How active rear axle steering AKC® improves steering
The capability to steer the rear axle has advantages in every driving situation. Increased agility in urban areas, higher stability when it matters. #ZFs active rear axle #steering AKC® increases #maneuverability, dynamics and comfort. Especially for battery powered vehicles which usually have longer wheelbases it bears numerous advantages. ZF expert Ingo Hermansa explains the technology.

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Maybe Cybertruck will have rear steer components from company ZF.


October 20, 2021 - ZF production milestone: One million active rear axle steering systems Production milestone for a key component in modern mobility
AKC (Active Kinematics Control)
* Production milestone for a key component in modern mobility
* Active rear axle steering significantly increases agility and stability
* Particularly benefits electric vehicles, which often have a longer wheelbase
* System suitable for vehicles up to 3.5 tons suitable for all axle architectures
Dielingen/Lebring (Austria). ZF's active rear axle steering system AKC (Active Kinematics Control) has established itself as a successful product with one million units produced since production launch in 2013. AKC enables agility, safety, and comfort in numerous driving situations.
https://press.zf.com/press/en/releases/release_31809.html


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[rr6013]

Neat idea… but even if you had a 50 mile an hour quartering headwind I doubt you’d get 20% lower drag.

I’ve had some Wyoming side winds across I-80 that a carb crab into would have changed how the whole rig behaved not just measured in gas consumption. Its a beast up around 40kts. Wyoming wind can get up that high. Wind pressure increases at a square for every doubling in velocity.

That’s just a guess since I’ve never designed aerodynamic cars. A number like 0.006 isn’t unreal when the starting ratio of efficiency is 0.028 for Cybertruck. But its just a wild guess with CT fine entry.

 

[jerhenderson]

I don't give a fig Newton about the crab walk. I'm about AWD for my Canadian winter and range.

 

[Hunter71294]

I’ve been around telescopic forklifts basically my whole life. Which have crab/4 wheel steer. I think crab walk is a good marketing term. The crab feature is good for forklifts but the all wheel steer is the main function. You basically only use two wheel steer when loading onto a trailer or going down the road. I think this will be a great feature on the CT and new Silverado EV. I had a Chevy Cruze in college and went back to an HD truck after and it’s a pita to park comparatively. The only time I see myself using crab walk is pulling out of a parallel park. I go off-road decently often but maybe the people that do it for leisure would use it more.

 

[rlhamil]

Agreed. I could care less about walking crab-like.

BUT BEV’s are super aerodynamic dependent for RANGE.

Think “trim”! 4XS at each wheel enables the computer to angle the Cybertruck exoskeleton ever so slightly into an off-angle wind to maximize aerodynamic efficiency.

Doglegged viewed from rear but yep that Cybertruck is driving staight in its lane just crabbed into the apparent wind. CT will minimize the angle of attack to the wind.

Easily crabbing into the wind to reduce drag enables Cybertruck to effectively lower its drag rationwithout changing its design. I bet it can amount to 20%lower drag at times.

That's what you do in an airplane, crab into the wind so your ground track is straight; if you just aim for where you're going, the wind and constant corrections will have your ground track be a curve, which is less efficient.

But on a ground vehicle, you also have friction on the ground, not to mention more tire wear with even slight crabbing; that's why wheel alignment is a biggie if you want your tires to last.

 

[alan auerbach]

I don't give a fig Newton about the crab walk. I'm about AWD for my Canadian winter and range.

RWS reminds me of aircraft that can taxi backward. The technology has been available for a generation, so If the extra complexity and cost were worth it, such features would be more common.

But in a snow belt you want traction. That includes AWD where all 4 can be temporarily locked (non-slip), and higher (low-speed) road clearance.

Also winter tire availability. Not just low-temp rubber and big cleats, but tire/rim dimensions that are taller and narrower than summers.

 

[TirNaOg]

Crab walk is a gimmick.
AWD and 4 wheel steer now thats a Feature!

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