VolklKatana

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With the octo-valve giving a nearly 10% boost in range, our 500 mile range just went up to 550, before battery improvements :cool:
 

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I was just thinking the same thing... same motors and number of motors makes each model weight the main determining factor for speed, battery usage, etc. However, if the battery could discharge and charge faster, you'd decrease charge time, of course but you would ALSO increase the amount of regen that is possible. IIRC, regen is limited by the speed you can charge the batteries.
It is with that speed being a function of temperature. A battery that could withstand higher charging rate at cooler temperature would clearly capture more regen in cooler weather than one whose maximum charge rate diminishes sharply with temperature. Of course better regulation of battery temperature in cooler weather would help in this regard.

What if, I don't know, Tesla invested in a company that made capacitors that could take that rapid regen and turn around and slow that down while charging the batteries?
There will be no super capacitors in the CT (quote Elon Musk). They simply do not have the energy density.

You could recoup almost 100% of braking as regened electricity instead of having to revert to mechanical brakes when regen output exceeds battery charge capability... Hmm....
The current system recoups as much energy as can be recouped in warm weather. Improvement is possible through a battery that can charge faster when cool or by improving battery cooling.
 

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With the octo-valve giving a nearly 10% boost in range, our 500 mile range just went up to 550, before battery improvements :cool:
You are so optimistic! What if that's all ready included in the 500+ range?
 

VolklKatana

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You are so optimistic! What if that's all ready included in the 500+ range?
Simply based on the timing, I dont think they had the potential savings back when the CT unveiled.

This also means they could possibly reduce the battery size i suppose....so we may never know!?
 

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You are so optimistic! What if that's all ready included in the 500+ range?
Or I would think those are numbers Elon wants to build to. So instead of increasing range they would use smaller Battery packs and keep weight down. Design choices.
 

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we know plaid for spaceballs for really fast, chill mode for less acceleration, and mad max mode for crazy traffic mode, but since we have heard about a plaid cybertruck(#cyberBRUTE) AUSSIE NAME) i and many others suspect elon is going to announce a quad motor option with a larger battery but only slight improved range due to extra motor which will make the R1T NOT AS GREAT OF AN OPTION but myself and others in australia are looking at this trip when arrives(pic 1+2) where we need the range to complete
cyber challenge 2.JPG
 

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we know plaid for spaceballs for really fast, chill mode for less acceleration, and mad max mode for crazy traffic mode, but since we have heard about a plaid cybertruck(#cyberBRUTE) AUSSIE NAME) i and many others suspect elon is going to announce a quad motor option with a larger battery but only slight improved range due to extra motor which will make the R1T NOT AS GREAT OF AN OPTION but myself and others in australia are looking at this trip when arrives(pic 1+2) where we need the range to complete
cyber challenge 2.JPG
cyber challenge.JPG

as you can see this a desert for 500+ km and if you have to change routes it is more like 600- 700 km and a convey of at least 5 vehicles for this means mt dare better have a decent amount of power for 5 so trying to get logistics done means we need the range and 4 motors
 

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The octovalve isn't going to improve range appreciably except in a certain temperature band (where cabin heat is required and the OAT is above say 0 °C) . A 4th motor wouldn't improve range. Mad Max mode is for driving in Coober.
 

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The octovalve isn't going to improve range appreciably except in a certain temperature band (where cabin heat is required and the OAT is above say 0 °C) . A 4th motor wouldn't improve range. Mad Max mode is for driving in Coober.
Every article I have read hasnt had those caveats....just states 10% efficiency increase... from what I have read, it states that the AC will run no matter what the temp.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/1...ggering-10-increase-in-range-for-the-model-y/
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-model-y-heat-pump-octovalve-elon-musk

Maybe Im missing something though?
 

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If I drive for an hour at 60 mph I'll go 60 miles and if the car needs 270 wH/mi consume 60*270 = 16,200 Wh which is 16.2 kWh. If the weather is cold and I turn the heat on, for sake of cabin comfort and battery, and those two heating loads total 2 kW (6280 Btu/hr i.e. about a half ton) I'll use another 2 kWh from the battery for that if the battery is my source of heat. So total consumption is 18.2 kWh and my range decreases to 16.2/18.2 = 89% if what it would be if I didn't need heat (which I don't most of the time even though it gets fairly cold here in he winter).

I get the funny feeling that a lot of people don't know what a heat pump is, how it works or even really what it does despite the fact that many people who have central heating have a heat pump or heat pumps in their houses. Even Sandy Munroe calls the compressor (which is part of a heat pump) the heat pump in his videos and confuses the high and low side lines. No need to get into how they work here but we need to understand what they do and that is move heat "uphill", that is, from lower temperature to higher temperature. Thus even though the air outside the car is at 0 °C a heatpump can extract heat from it (cooling it to below 0 °C - go put your hand in the exhaust air stream from you heat pump when it is running) and use this "free" heat, which doesn't come from the battery, to warm the cabin and, if necessary the battery. The heat isn't really free. It takes some electricity to pump it uphill. For example lets assume that the heat pump has a COP (coefficient of performance) of 4. That means that if you put 1 kW of electricity into it you will get 4 out (1 from the electricity and 3 from the air). Thus if we need 2 kW of heat we need, in a car with a COP 4 heat pump, only supply 500 W electricity. Our total consumption would now be 16.7 kW and our range reduction to 16.2/16.7 = 97%. So we are about 8% more efficient because of the heat pump but, clearly, only when we need heat.

Now going across the Simpson Desert in January is a different matter. We must dispose of heat by moving it uphill from comfortable cabin temperature of 20 - 25 °C and proper battery operating temperatures to the nasty 40+ °C temperatures seen in that part of the world in summer. But the Tesla's have always had that. I'm sure the octovalve system is a little more efficient at doing that than previous Tesla A/C systems but I doubt that it is enough improved to increase range by 10%.

Thus it appears that there are times and places where the new heat pump configuration could increase range by 10% but that would hardly, as I see it, be the case in all driving. This 10% claim is just vintage Elon IMO. OTOH perhaps it is I who is overlooking something.
 

VolklKatana

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Thanks for the detail ajdelange. to funny part about all this is, unless you are doing a side by side with 2 vehicles with only that difference, its tough to substantiate any claim thats made right? and in the end, its trivial as Im sure we are all going to mash that accelerator for instant satisfaction anyway! :LOL:
 

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It seems the context of Plaid is something above hyperdrive plus warp speed. In the context of the CT that implies 0 - 60 in less than 1.9 sec. Why would Elon want to make a truck that does it faster than that? Because he can?
 

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You are so optimistic! What if that's all ready included in the 500+ range?
With the octo-valve giving a nearly 10% boost in range, our 500 mile range just went up to 550, before battery improvements :cool:
I think they mean that when using the heater, you'll see a 10% efficiency bump over using the resistive heater that their other models use.
 

ajdelange

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It seems the context of Plaid is something above hyperdrive plus warp speed. In the context of the CT that implies 0 - 60 in less than 1.9 sec.
That's not right is it? 1.9 is the number for the roadster. The number for the CT is 2.9 sec 0 - 60 which as I recall is about 0.94 g. This gives me a thought as to what Plaid might mean and that is a truck that does 0 - 60 at a 1 g rate i.e. 2.9*0.94/1.00 = 2.726 sec.
 

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That's not right is it? 1.9 is the number for the roadster. The number for the CT is 2.9 sec 0 - 60 which as I recall is about 0.94 g. This gives me a thought as to what Plaid might mean and that is a truck that does 0 - 60 at a 1 g rate i.e. 2.9*0.94/1.00 = 2.726 sec.
Is it possible the truck will be that fast? I mean, it'll have a lot of rubber on the road to push it down the road. (and a lot of mass resisting that push but still...)
 

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