Ogre

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Ford made the opposite mistake.

They released an extended range numbers for their higher models and adding higher prices for them.

Then when the units were out, costumers and reviewers started finding out a huge drop in range and battery drain when pulling a trailer, climbing a hill and driving with outside low temperatures and snow.
Ford’s problem is low - middle range and slow, unreliable charging. Nothing they told consumers would fix this. The people who got stranded knew it was going to be an issue, they just under-estimated how unreliable the charging network would be.

Tesla is shipping a truck with faster, reliable charging and longer range options.

 

Cybertruckee

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Ford’s problem is low - middle range and slow, unreliable charging. Nothing they told consumers would fix this. The people who got stranded knew it was going to be an issue, they just under-estimated how unreliable the charging network would be.

Tesla is shipping a truck with faster, reliable charging and longer range options.
And they should have issued an extended range qualifiers earlier: pre-condition battery, don't haul a non-bullet shaped trailer, park the truck inside your garage, remove ice accumulated on the hood, don't turn on the heater even on sub-zero weather, avoid roads with more than 3% grade climb or higher.. :rolleyes:
 

Sirfun

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And they should have issued an extended range qualifiers earlier: pre-condition battery, don't haul a non-bullet shaped trailer, park the truck inside your garage, remove ice accumulated on the hood, don't turn on the heater even on sub-zero weather, avoid roads with more than 3% grade climb or higher.. :rolleyes:
Ford doesn't seem to care about their customers at all. They rushed out the release of the Lightning and the Mach E. Both vehicles have had major issues. I enjoy watching the Youtuber that does Hoovies Garage. He lives in Kansas, and he did an interesting video showing just how bad the Lightning can be in colder weather (Not even that cold). I can see where there are workarounds to help manage these issues, but they are legitimate issues that Ford is slowly addressing.
 

Ogre

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Ford delivered what they could.

They delivered it on time. They are losing large sums of money doing it. It is arguably parallel to the earliest Model Ss. So long as you respect the limits of the truck you are ok.

Muck like the early Model S, it’s a chance for them to hone their strategy on building an electric vehicle. Their second generation truck will likely be announced around the time the Cybertruck starts shipping.

Though it might be a near thing. If their second gen truck is good enough to compete with the Cybertruck, when they announce their 2nd gen truck, sales of the 1st gen will crash.

PS: I don’t think Fords 2nd generation truck will be very competitive with the Cybertruck.
 


firsttruck

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Their second generation truck will likely be announced around the time the Cybertruck starts shipping.

Though it might be a near thing. If their second gen truck is good enough to compete with the Cybertruck, when they announce their 2nd gen truck, sales of the 1st gen will crash.

PS: I don’t think Fords 2nd generation truck will be very competitive with the Cybertruck.
Also Ford's 2nd gen truck probably will not become available until 2026.

Hopefully Cybertruck will be in high volume production (250K+) by Oct of 2025.
 
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Sirfun

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OMG, I was reading comments on the YouTube video. There's tons of comments about the Hummer roof panel leaking water all over the back seats. When I went back and saw it, I was BLOWN AWAY how bad it leaked. I did a frame grab of when he turns right out of the dealer parking lot. And there's also a big leak when he punches the throttle at 12:40.
I can only imagine how pissed off someone would be in that back seat, having that Hummer pee cold water all over them!

hummerleak.jpg
 

SolarWizard

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Ford doesn't seem to care about their customers at all. They rushed out the release of the Lightning and the Mach E. Both vehicles have had major issues. I enjoy watching the Youtuber that does Hoovies Garage. He lives in Kansas, and he did an interesting video showing just how bad the Lightning can be in colder weather (Not even that cold). I can see where there are workarounds to help manage these issues, but they are legitimate issues that Ford is slowly addressing.
This experience flies in the face of my own.
please don’t forget that grifting is the biggest source of revenue on youtube
 

Sirfun

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This experience flies in the face of my own.
please don’t forget that grifting is the biggest source of revenue on youtube
I have nothing involved to win or loose in this conversation, but I'm interested in your opinion. When I look on your information bar under your name it says location: CA & FL. So that makes me wonder if your experience in those locations are like this YouTuber living in Kansas. Throughout the video he is showing the dash on the Lightning and the information looks like it is confirming what he is saying. What got my attention was the info on the dash that shows Mi/Kwh. At the worst point when he was driving 75mph into what he called a 15-20mph headwind, it was only showing 1.1 miles per kwh. One thing that wasn't mentioned anywhere in this video is tire pressure. I live in CA and it hardly ever gets very cold where I live, but occasionally I have gotten into a vehicle on what we call a very cold morning and the vehicle will sometimes give a low tire pressure warning. I wonder if that Lightning had low air pressure due to the cold temps. That could affect range also.
Please elaborate on your experience, do you drive a Lightning in cold temps and get decent range?

Edit: I went back and looked at the video showing the dash of the Lightning. He starts off with what he says is 3/4% of battery, with 149 miles of predicted range. The odometer reads 2613.6. When he's arriving back home the odometer says 2678.1 and the predicted range left is only 37 miles. That would confirm he had only drove 64.5 miles and had used up 112 miles of predicted range. One other thing that implies is that if he got the full 37 miles of range left, and added that to the 64.5 miles of range he used up. He would have gotten 101.5 miles of driving with the 3/4 full battery he said the truck had when he started the trip. If that's 3/4 of the range, then a full battery would only give him 132miles of range. YIKES!
 
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Bill906

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Would the crash data be accurate on trucks made by hand instead of by the production process? Seems like for accurate crash testing they would have to pluck a few random samples from the line. Could be a valid thing to make a few vehicles to validate their construction process and see if there are any obvious things to correct before building up and automating the production line.
What you’re suggesting is kind of a chicken/egg scenario.

If you run the test AFTER the vehicle is in production, you’re already producing vehicles. It’d be too late to use the data from the test to improve the vehicle. Worst case, what if the test shows the design completely failed a requirement.

Unless Tesla (or whoever) completely trusts their computer modeling, engineering etc. They would have to do at least some testing on pre production vehicles. Whether NHTSA or other regulatory body requires actual production vehicles to be tested, I do not know.

Just reread your post. We might be arguing the same thing. I‘m not sure I completely understand what you are saying. In your last sentence you say ”…make a few vehicles…”. Do you mean make a few by hand, or make a few using the production line?
 


Crissa

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Ford doesn't seem to care about their customers at all. They rushed out the release of the Lightning and the Mach E. Both vehicles have had major issues. I enjoy watching the Youtuber that does Hoovies Garage. He lives in Kansas, and he did an interesting video showing just how bad the Lightning can be in colder weather (Not even that cold). I can see where there are workarounds to help manage these issues, but they are legitimate issues that Ford is slowly addressing.
This guy is an idiot.

He drives with a hand-held device. He speeds. He doesn't pay attention to charge percentage.

Miles remaining mean nothing if the next n miles aren't like the last n miles. If it was 80 degrees and now it's 30 degrees, your range will be different. If you're going up a hill now, then you definitely shouldn't compare it to miles going down a hill, but that's basically what he's doing. This is literally no different than in an ICE.

If my car said it had 160 miles remaining, that's a quarter tank, optimal. And you know what? Loading it up heavy, diving fast in the cold sticky, I could lose half my range. Duh. I remember doing that once in my Civic after throwing on chains and made it to a gas station on the way home in fumes because I hadn't bothered to remember that would halve my range, driving in snow. I was busy, like Hoovie. Was my fault, not the car.

He's an idiot.

Should range know about weather? Yes. Can it know when you're going to speed? Not really. Can it know you're going to pull a trailer, speeding, if you don't bother telling it? Maybe?



-Crissa
 
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Sirfun

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This guy is an idiot.

He drives with a hand-held device. He speeds. He doesn't pay attention to charge percentage.

Miles remaining mean nothing if the next n miles aren't like the last n miles. If it was 80 degrees and now it's 30 degrees, your range will be different. If you're going up a hill now, then you definitely shouldn't compare it to miles going down a hill, but that's basically what he's doing. This is literally no different than in an ICE.

If my car said it had 160 miles remaining, that's a quarter tank, optimal. And you know what? Loading it up heavy, diving fast in the cold sticky, I could lose half my range. Duh. I remember doing that once in my Civic after throwing on chains and made it to a gas station on the way home in fumes because I hadn't bothered to remember that would halve my range, driving in snow. I was busy, like Hoovie. Was my fault, not the car.

He's an idiot.

Should range know about weather? Yes. Can it know when you're going to speed? Not really. Can it know you're going to pull a trailer, speeding, if you don't bother telling it? Maybe?



-Crissa
He's an idiot.
LOL, tell us how you really feel :) I agree with you that it's not good to be filming while driving. But, I disagree about speed. That dash shows the speed limit in the bottom right corner, and most of the time while he showed the dash he was driving the way normal people drive, about 5% above the speed limit. Even though it was alarming(red flag) to see the speedo showing 75mph. When I looked at the speed limit, I was surprised to see that the speed limit on that section of highway was also 75mph. So my point is that he was driving normal speeds (75mph into a 15-20 mph headwind) which would equate to an apparent wind speed the truck is experiencing of about 90-95mph. And that Ford Lightning with that massive front end with a horrendous drag coeficient was only getting about 1.2 miles per Kwh in 37 degree weather. That's still pretty damn bad in my book.
Are you gonna tell me the Lightning is a great vehicle, and this was all that idiot Hoovie's fault?
I don't think so.
BTW, thanks for the video from TFL, it was nice to see Roman cheerleading for EVs.
 
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Crissa

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But, I disagree about speed. That dash shows the speed limit in the bottom right corner, and most of the time while he showed the dash he was driving the way normal people drive, about 5% above the speed limit. Even though it was alarming(red flag) to see the speedo showing 75mph. When I looked at the speed limit, I was surprised to see that the speed limit on that section of highway was also 75mph. So my point is that he was driving normal speeds (75mph into a 15-20 mph headwind) which would equate to an apparent wind speed the truck is experiencing of about 90-95mph. And that Ford Lightning with that massive front end with a horrendous drag coeficient was only getting about 1.2 miles per Kwh in 37 degree weather. That's still pretty damn bad in my book.
Are you gonna tell me the Lightning is a great vehicle, and this was all that idiot Hoovie's fault?
I don't think so.
BTW, thanks for the video from TFL, it was nice to see Roman cheerleading for EVs.
Normal?

He drove like that with the trailer mis-laden, too.

If it's 'normal' to speed, then it should be 'normal' that you expect less range than the rated amount. Especially when you head out with less than a full charge, no preconditioning... Idling and running about all day.

No, an ICE F150 wouldn't have done better.

-Crissa
 

LoneWolfO6

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OMG, I was reading comments on the YouTube video. There's tons of comments about the Hummer roof panel leaking water all over the back seats. When I went back and saw it, I was BLOWN AWAY how bad it leaked. I did a frame grab of when he turns right out of the dealer parking lot. And there's also a big leak when he punches the throttle at 12:40.
I can only imagine how pissed off someone would be in that back seat, having that Hummer pee cold water all over them!

hummerleak.jpg
Tesla has had its share of panel gap, heaters not working, whole glass roofs flying off, paint miss matched, etc. But Tesla is better at crowd control and putting out media fires. Lol.

 

 
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