Rumor: 30 Cybertrucks to be manually built in December 2022 [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS or TWITTER TALK]

[papajamaliciousness]

What you’re suggesting is kind of a chicken/egg scenario.

If you run the test AFTER the vehicle is in production, you’re already producing vehicles. It’d be too late to use the data from the test to improve the vehicle. Worst case, what if the test shows the design completely failed a requirement.

Unless Tesla (or whoever) completely trusts their computer modeling, engineering etc. They would have to do at least some testing on pre production vehicles. Whether NHTSA or other regulatory body requires actual production vehicles to be tested, I do not know.

Just reread your post. We might be arguing the same thing. I‘m not sure I completely understand what you are saying. In your last sentence you say ”…make a few vehicles…”. Do you mean make a few by hand, or make a few using the production line?

I'm just wondering what the normal practice is--do auto manufacturers hand make vehicles for crash testing, it's an objective question. I am certain it is normally done by pulling random cars off the line but I never worked for a big auto manufacturer so I bet someone in this community knows the answer for sure and I confess I don't.

The real question behind my post is: "Why would Tesla make 30 hand made vehicles?" I know some people said for crash testing but as I said above that doesn't make sense to me. So my speculation is it's because Elon wants to evaluate his production methods before ramping up his line. That fits in with what I know about his philosophy of doing manufacturing although it still seems a little bit surprising (and possibly not true at all).

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[Cybertruckee]

I understand the concept of "first to market" and I won't pretend to know more than Ford who is in the car business in more years that we care to remember.

But they should know the high reputation risk of launching a product that has not been fully tested (in fact, should have been stressed test in extreme and worst possible conditions) and being found out to not yet ready for the big league.

 

[Crissa]

Don't kill the messenger:

The account got deleted. Alas, no one recorded it into the wayback machine.

Each of the brands websites have a different administrator and funding.

The real question behind my post is: "Why would Tesla make 30 hand made vehicles?" I know some people said for crash testing but as I said above that doesn't make sense to me. So my speculation is it's because Elon wants to evaluate his production methods before ramping up his line. That fits in with what I know about his philosophy of doing manufacturing although it still seems a little bit surprising (and possibly not true at all).

Crash testing is just one thing. Validating and testing manufacturing techniques is another. You want to do that before you've committed to the full line and can move things around. Every car that comes out generally has a testing fleet made before they finish the production line.

-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

Crash testing is just one thing. Validating and testing manufacturing techniques is another. You want to do that before you've committed to the full line and can move things around. Every car that comes out generally has a testing fleet made before they finish the production line.

-Crissa

True!

In Tesla's case, they do manual production as a template for the fully computerized mass production line.

Tests are done on both the manually manufactured on the mass production line before the latter is released to the public and the consumers. At least this is what they've done in their Fremont operations.

For Ford, I would think they shorten the extreme and stress tests to be first-on-market. I don't know really but this is my educated guess.

 

[EVCanuck]

We will find out in 2 weeks... or so

 

[cvalue13]

Ford made the opposite mistake.

They released an extended range numbers for their higher models and adding higher prices for them.

Then when the units were out, costumers and reviewers started finding out a huge drop in range and battery drain when pulling a trailer, climbing a hill and driving with outside low temperatures and snow.

While others (especially @Crissa ) have since addressed parts of this line of thinking that seem wrong-headed, still others are piling on with various versions of the same wrong-headedness.

As someone who has owned a lightning for 5 months and ~3000 miles, here’s my take:

Ford releasing the EPA’s test numbers seems to me … obligatory?

Meanwhile, Ford set out to convert ICE truck drivers to an EV platform and is accomplishing it. The “cost” of those first-time-EV-truck conversions is having new owners that are relatively ignorant of EV dynamics and so critiques born of their own ignorance, and a world of sensationalist content creators more than eager to fuel it. These, to me, were unavoidable consequence of Ford accomplishing exactly what it set out to do.

There are only uneducated buyers out there who are taken aback by EVs having significant range hits due to weather conditions (despite the fact that their ICE’s performed similarly, just less obviously due to ubiquity of fuel). There are only uneducated buyers out there who thought a 320mi maximum EPA range meant they could tow an RV at 75mph for the bulk of that maximum range. Etc., etc.

To them all, I say: “welcome to future, mothe*****ers!”

Meanwhile, the country’s (world’s?) non-Tesla third-party charging infrastructure is lacking, particularly in parts of the country being converted to EV trucks for the first time. That is an issue faced by any and all non-Tesla EVs. And here again, if you didn’t appreciate that before buying a non-Tesla EV, that’s on you.

I’ve driven a pickup for 30 years. I’ve wanted an electric vehicle for 10. I’ve had one for 5 months, and - all things considered - wouldn’t trade it for any available competitor in existence, and don’t see how I could go back to ICE. That, I believe, is the experience of the non-content-creating-remotely-informed silent majority of Lightning owners.

When (and if) the CT is released in significant and remotely obtainable numbers, only then will the tell of the tape be relevant. I personally have doubts the CT ever gets off the ground, or off the ground at remotely competitive prices.

But I also have an early CT reservation, and a pretty a cool trade-in waiting.

 

[Crissa]

This guy is an idiot.

He drives with a hand-held device. He speeds. He doesn't pay attention to charge percentage.

Miles remaining mean nothing if the next n miles aren't like the last n miles. If it was 80 degrees and now it's 30 degrees, your range will be different. If you're going up a hill now, then you definitely shouldn't compare it to miles going down a hill, but that's basically what he's doing. This is literally no different than in an ICE.

If my car said it had 160 miles remaining, that's a quarter tank, optimal. And you know what? Loading it up heavy, diving fast in the cold sticky, I could lose half my range. Duh. I remember doing that once in my Civic after throwing on chains and made it to a gas station on the way home in fumes because I hadn't bothered to remember that would halve my range, driving in snow. I was busy, like Hoovie. Was my fault, not the car.

He's an idiot.

Should range know about weather? Yes. Can it know when you're going to speed? Not really. Can it know you're going to pull a trailer, speeding, if you don't bother telling it? Maybe?

And she knows, she knows how to drive in the the cold.




-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

While others (especially @Crissa ) have since addressed parts of this line of thinking that seem wrong-headed, still others are piling on with various versions of the same wrong-headedness.

As someone who has owned a lightning for 5 months and ~3000 miles, here’s my take:

You, @Crissa and me can agree that the guy on that video is ignorant and maybe loaded the dice in driving his new Ford Lightning and thus got those worst-case scenario results.

But don't you think the world of EV and ICE trucks will be better served that instead of ranting against those "ignorant" new owners of Ford Lightning, you'll give us your not-so-ignorant take and numbers to support your fine-and-dandy conclusion correctly (or babying) driving your own unit.

I also have a reservation for F150 Lightning Lariat and Ford already wrote me twice to do my order, presumably, to put me in the queue for a final purchase. But as I said, there are enough initial negative reviews on Ford Lightning forum about big drop in range in cold weather and while towing. And with my dealer's crazy price of $114,000 and the fact that I'll be frequently humping that brutal Donner Summit with snow piled up 10-feet high on the sides of the I80, there is no way I can be foolish enough to proceed to buy it.

One such post, although he said he was happy with his F150 Lightning, said that he fully charged in Sacto, but that he stopped again in Truckee for recharging, when theoretically he can proceed straight to Reno because that 132-mile distance can easily be covered by his extended range Lariat. Talk about range anxiety and lack of confidence.

 

[Crissa]

One such post, although he said he was happy with his F150 Lightning, said that he fully charged in Sacto, but that he stopped again in Truckee for recharging, when theoretically he can proceed straight to Reno because that 132-mile distance can easily be covered by his extended range Lariat. Talk about range anxiety and lack of confidence.

...has the guy ever driven from Truckee to Reno? Like, you can do it on fumes. o-o

I wonder about some of these guys, like, have they ever driven anywhere they had to calculate their fuel for?

-Crissa

 

[Diehard]

One such post, although he said he was happy with his F150 Lightning, said that he fully charged in Sacto, but that he stopped again in Truckee for recharging, when theoretically he can proceed straight to Reno because that 132-mile distance can easily be covered by his extended range Lariat. Talk about range anxiety and lack of confidence.

How do you know he stopped due to lack of confidence? I would do the same if the stop was at a place that coincided with a lunch or a break. When I visit relatives, I wouldn't want to ask to charge there and I don't want to arrive empty in case we have to go somewhere. And I wouldn't want to let my EV sit empty either. If charging is slow at my destination, I would fill up at a faster chager early. There is tons of reasons to charge midway up to 80%.

However, I never expect to have the same level of freedom and confidence as when I travel with my Wife's ICE with near 600 mile range. If you are comparing apples and oranges we are wasting time. If we are talking EVs, until I get to know my EV, I would be on the safe side too. Especially if the elevation, weather conditions and charging stations are on the iffy side. For non Tesla charging, at this stage of the game, staying safe is not a bad idea.

 

[cvalue13]

But don't you think the world of EV and ICE trucks will be better served that instead of ranting against those "ignorant" new owners of Ford Lightning, you'll give us your not-so-ignorant take and numbers to support your fine-and-dandy conclusion correctly (or babying) driving your own unit.

I also have a reservation for F150 Lightning Lariat and Ford already wrote me twice to do my order, presumably, to put me in the queue for a final purchase. But as I said, there are enough initial negative reviews on Ford Lightning forum about big drop in range in cold weather and while towing. And with my dealer's crazy price of $114,000 and the fact that I'll be frequently humping that brutal Donner Summer with snow piled up 10-feet high on the sides of the I80, there is no way I can be foolish enough to proceed to buy it.

Fair enough, here’s my data-take:

(1) my Lariat cost under under $70,000

(2) I don’t commute much (mentioned 3,000mi in 5mo)

(3) I don’t tow, and I have no delusions about the physics of EVs as relates to drag and speed (note: even flawless Teslas have 20-30% range reductions from mere hitch-mounted bicycle racks)

(4) I live in central Texas, so experience *relatively* little cold weather range depletion

(5) I have 21Kw of solar on my roof, so very little net charging costs

(6) I pay almost no attention to my on-dash mileage “guess-o-meter” (like my ICE’s mileage estimate), and instead view my battery % as no more/less reliable than my ICE’s fuel gauge: at a “1/4” I get a antsy, and either fill up (if I’m feeling adult), or (if I’m instead reliving high school) trust that “E” stands for ‘enough’

Which is all to say: if I mistook fuel gauges for oracles, was subject to high electricity costs, lived in Wisconsin, lived for RV life on weekends, had a material commute on weekdays, and was being offered a Lariat at $114,000 … I’d pass

but I’d don’t see that as any different from knowing the use case and value proposition of any other vehicle: I’d also pass on a Miata

 

[TyPope]

OG Topic redirect...

I've been watching Joe Tegtmeyer and Jeff Roberts drone coverage over GigaTexas for over 2 years now. To be fair, my wife sits through them as well. There may or may not be a drinking game involved during Joe's videos... "COM-ponents!"

Anyway, I've enjoyed watching the factory come together as I eagerly await Cybertruck news and love seeing things that are CT specific on-site. I've been waiting to see scrap CT parts show up on site, for instance, as well as 9,000 Ton Gigapress parts.

It occurred to me last night when wondering about the 30 being built in December that we should have seen at least one by now as December has just 22 days left. However, I think we are watching the wrong factory. Those first 30 may come out of Freemont.

Any opinions on that thought or is that what everyone expected and I'm just a little slow getting there?

 

[Cybertruckee]

...has the guy ever driven from Truckee to Reno? Like, you can do it on fumes. o-o

I wonder about some of these guys, like, have they ever driven anywhere they had to calculate their fuel for?

-Crissa

LOL, exactly! Driving from Truckee to Reno would have added wattage to his battery with constant braking and consequent regen.

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