Should Tesla 're-design the wheel' for CyberTruck?

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
96
Messages
11,205
Reaction score
18,384
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
That would be grounds for divorce in my book! No way, no how! I've experienced enough 100 plus degree weather to want to search it out!
She lets me get creative with the insulation and carry as much water as I need. It's why I have a solar set and a 134 amp hour LFP battery in a Mazda 3.

If I didn't indulge her, she wouldn't indulge me ^-^

-Crissa

 

JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
2,288
Reaction score
2,427
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck MY Prius Merc VW
Country flag
Most Cybertruck owners will never drive a single mile in rural Western Australia.
You'd be surprised how many Aussies have them on order. It's coming for sure. When is a different question.

But that doesn't avoid the main point of my argument re spare. If you need it for work and not recreation, you can't choose when you need to use it as easily as saying I'm going to stay home.
 
OP
OP
go99s

go99s

Member
First Name
Go99s
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
23
Reaction score
42
Location
UK / Thailand
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Country flag
How come both of my two threads end up being dominated by discussions about BEARS???
What percentage of even CTOC is ever likely to have to deal with a bear, let alone the rest of the world!
Give me a break guys...
 

JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
2,288
Reaction score
2,427
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck MY Prius Merc VW
Country flag
How come both of my two threads end up being dominated by discussions about BEARS???
What percentage of even CTOC is ever likely to have to deal with a bear, let alone the rest of the world!
Give me a break guys...
Because you mention your pop up soft camper that is apparently not compatible with bears?
That is of course unless you intend to feed them. 😬
 

Morning Star

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
45
Reaction score
105
Location
Night City
Vehicles
2077 Tesla Cybertruck


OP
OP
go99s

go99s

Member
First Name
Go99s
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
23
Reaction score
42
Location
UK / Thailand
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Country flag
Because you mention your pop up soft camper that is apparently not compatible with bears?
That is of course unless you intend to feed them. 😬
OK, guilty as charged ; ) but I'll leave the feeding of bears to North Americans, in Thailand its mosquito's that feast on me and in the UK, I can't think of anything, except maybe bankers!

Still waiting for that nugget of genius from CTOC members that might get Tesla to actually look at the hub, wheel, tyre combo?

I'm still thinking that there could be something that enables a fabulous on-road efficiency with an off-road performance competence when required from the same item. A pneumatic tyre is unlikely to do so, but an air-less one with speed-related shape shifting from the 'wheel' element could do. For example, the outer structure of the wheel spokes could result in them directing their rotational mass towards pushing out the central road optimised section of treads to reduce the contact area and thus behave more like a 'steel wheel tyre' at higher speeds but leave the softer outer section almost in contact with smooth pavement at lower speeds. On softer terrain, the lugs and outer tread pattern engage despite the central section protruding fractionally more so. You don't typically drive at 60mph off-road!!!
 
Last edited:

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
128
Messages
7,968
Reaction score
19,577
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
How come both of my two threads end up being dominated by discussions about BEARS???
What percentage of even CTOC is ever likely to have to deal with a bear, let alone the rest of the world!
Give me a break guys...
I spend a lot of time in the woods in places where bears are common.

I suspect very few folks who spend a lot of time in the woods worry overmuch about bear attacks. Only reason bears break into vehicles is to get at food. Don’t keep food in your truck… Voila! Your truck is bear proof!

The only bears that bother me are the ones on Wall Street.
 

Morning Star

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
45
Reaction score
105
Location
Night City
Vehicles
2077 Tesla Cybertruck
Still waiting for that nugget of genius from CTOC members that might get Tesla to actually look at the hub, wheel, tyre combo?
You might be happy to hear Joe Rogan asked Elon Musk about airless tires on his podcast show.


tl;dw: It’s not easy and probably not feasible yet.
 

Cybertruckee

Well-known member
First Name
Yosemite Sam
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
474
Reaction score
500
Location
Mostly under the pines
Vehicles
Red Rider
Occupation
Finance Manager
Country flag
That would be grounds for divorce in my book! No way, no how! I've experienced enough 100 plus degree weather to want to search it out!
Don't go camping in Pinnacles National Park in summer where where temperature swings by 46 degrees and just going out of the RV even mid morning is hell. And we thought we can do a little hiking.

Death Valley is definitely fall and Las Vegas is just passing through.
 

AlexD

Well-known member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Feb 28, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
93
Reaction score
98
Location
Virginia USA
Vehicles
Lexus 460LS, Model 3 dm, Mustang Boss 302, F150
Occupation
retired Building Contractor
Country flag
To follow on from firsttruck's comments:

Tyre deformation, that is how much the tyre changes shape around the contact patch to the ground, is the primary cause of rolling resistance. Hence a steel train wheel on a steel rail has less such deformation and therefore less rolling resistance.

Airless tyres are predominantly a gimmick for off road use only where punctures are a problem. Anything caught in the side wall openings of those airless tyre will cause such a imbalance in the wheel at highway speeds that the vibrations would make it un-driveable.

A much better option is CTIS (Central Tyre Inflation System) where you can change and refill air in pneumatic tyres. Tesla apparently poached Mercedes Unimogs CTIS engineer and made some patents recently, so I'm super hopeful we'll see it, at least as an option on the CT because it is a game changer.

CTIS solves a bunch of problems with tyres.

Punctures, adapting tyre pressures to terrain and surface conditions, flotation for sand and snow, optimal pressure for highway cruise rolling resistance, adaptability to vehicle loads per wheel etc.

But there is limited scope for using tyre air pressure to deform tyres to the degree required to change the part of the contact patch of the tyre with the road that exposes different tread patterns. The reason is that most modern tyres are designed to have fairly rigid sidewalls and a flat tread across the bottom. You can embed some extra tread on the sidewall so when you deflate it for offroad, but otherwise its fairly limited on road.

I remember a while back someone suggesting the same sort of thing to improve wheels and tyres to EM, and his response was that they are already highly optimised and in particular cost effective components, that can only be incrementally improved.

In saying that I had some ideas around how to "reinvent the wheel" some decades ago, but never got it is past an simple proof of concept. It was a combination of flapping "flying carpet", hovercraft and alternating track deformation that combined the best properties of each, that used the incoming air underneath the vehicle as a air cushion, and also as a skirt to provide traction as required. Anyways, something for another day. 🙂
When comparing a train and a truck freewheeling to a stop, doesn't the difference it weight, (therefore difference in kinetic energy) play a big part?
 


JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
2,288
Reaction score
2,427
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck MY Prius Merc VW
Country flag
When comparing a train and a truck freewheeling to a stop, doesn't the difference it weight, (therefore difference in kinetic energy) play a big part?
Rolling resistance is a term used to describe the force required to overcome the moving parts of the wheel over a surface.

Free wheeling, or coasting to a stop, is the process of reducing the vehicles potential energy by converting it's kinetic energy into other forms of energy, by way of rolling and aerodynamic resistance.

So in comparison the exact same vehicle mass would roll further on a rail with steel wheels than on a road with rubber wheels. This is because the rolling resistance is less.

For example: If it where aerodynamic drag imagine one had a sail (the road) and one didn't (the rail) and which one would stop first.
 

FutureBoy

Well-known member
First Name
Reginald
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
192
Messages
2,254
Reaction score
3,819
Location
Kirkland WA USA
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna
Occupation
Financial Advisor
Country flag
How come both of my two threads end up being dominated by discussions about BEARS???
What percentage of even CTOC is ever likely to have to deal with a bear, let alone the rest of the world!
Give me a break guys...

1663654422947.png
 

FutureBoy

Well-known member
First Name
Reginald
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
192
Messages
2,254
Reaction score
3,819
Location
Kirkland WA USA
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna
Occupation
Financial Advisor
Country flag
If you are too lazy to take a second shot at a grizzly, for the love of God, please don't take the first one. I don't care if your handgun is super-duper macho and neither does the grizzly. The low velocity and relatively large caliber of the .45 ACP makes it a poor choice when it comes to stopping a mature grizzly, so shot placement is still key. It can work but it would be one of my last choices. Another marginal round like 9 mm would be a better choice because it will have more follow up shots and it's easier to get good shot placement with multiple rounds. But I wouldn't mess around with a 9mm either unless it's all I had with me at the time, neither one are considered good grizzly protection.
 

HaulingAss

Well-known member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
1,504
Reaction score
2,847
Location
Washington State
Vehicles
2010 Ford F-150, 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Country flag
How come both of my two threads end up being dominated by discussions about BEARS???
What percentage of even CTOC is ever likely to have to deal with a bear, let alone the rest of the world!
Give me a break guys...
If I were you, and I'm not, I would be overjoyed that they weren't bears of the TSLAQ type!

Not only is it worse if your thread is taken over by TSLAQ bears, but it's also more common.

I've been around a lot of bears in the wild, most often at distances of 50-100 yards but several times as close as 10-30 feet, both Grizzlies and Black Bears. Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, California, they are all over. It seems like N. American bear populations are increasing so it won't be uncommon for people that use their Cybertruck for recreating to find themselves around bears.
 

LoneWolfO6

Well-known member
First Name
T
Joined
May 27, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
191
Reaction score
167
Location
America
Vehicles
2018 Model 3
Occupation
Retired Military
Country flag
To cut-to-the-chase, my opinion is that Tesla should absolutely consider a 'First Principles' evaluation of the hub, wheel and tyre for CyberTruck.

We have not really changed car wheels, other than the transition to alloy for the wheel structure verses steel, for about 100 years.

For almost all vehicles we still use a pneumatic inflated rubber tyre mounted on a wheel that then mounts onto a hub using threaded fasteners. Yet, Formula 1 and some other race cars have advanced hub/ wheel mounting systems, several of the worlds premiere tyre companies have air-less prototype tyre/ wheel systems (often protected by patents but I'm sure they would 'partner' with Tesla) and finally, we could have the opportunity to have the tyre/ wheel combo behave dynamically in response to the huge variety of load cases that they are subjected to.

For example the current prototype air-less wheels use internal structures to provide bump absorbtion whilst retaining lateral stiffness but I feel sure that Tesla engineers could develop that to include speed related fuctionality such as creating a smaller contact patch at higher (60 - 90mph) speeds to reduce friction but that would flatten back out instantaneously on braking. The moment you lift off the accelerator, the load map within the wheel/ tyre combo changes, even more so if you then apply a braking force. I recently watched a video suggesting using wider tyres on a Tesla MY to improve NVH - which had me attempting to think like Tesla!! (Youtube: The Automotive Fanatic, watch?v=szSAnY59A_Q)

Another scenario is for the central tread pattern, contact patch and rubber formulation to be optimised for smooth pavement which would give reduced rolling resistance for range improvements and for the outer quarters to be optimised for off-road. In normal road use, especially at speed, the outer sections of the tyre might barely touch the road and thus reduce friction and road noise. These outer quarters, made with a softer compound, more suitable for softer terrain, loose gravel and dirt are able to engage with the ground on softer surfaces... You could even have an active element (equivalent to the partial deflation of regular off-road pneumatic tyres) that can switch between smooth pavement and off-road optimisations.

However, I am not suggesting that any of the above content is anything other than a template for the sort of discussion that I would be interested in hearing about as I am certainly no expert on hub, wheel or tyre design. So please try to avoid your reply simply being a hit-job on me!

I would be interested to hear what others on the forum think about this. With CyberTruck, we are soon to have the most revolutionary vehicle in the last 100 years, I would love to see it with equally revolutionary hubs, wheels and tyres.

Kind regards, Go99s.

AirlessWheel.png
Think it would be great and work once we get the Cibertruck, (Tyre’s vs Tire’s) cruising on Mars with with assistance of less gravity? Not so much on Earth asphalt roads. Lol.

 
Last edited:

 
CYBERBACKPACK
Top