Should Tesla 're-design the wheel' for CyberTruck?

[Ogre]

I have only seen airless tires on bicycles and tractors, so nothing high speed.

And they suck on bikes too.

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[Zabhawkin]

And they suck on bikes too.

Yes..... Yes they do.

 

[Dids]

And they suck on bikes too.

And they suck on wheelbarrows.

 

[Dids]

I'm not sure that I follow your argument... Are you saying that a steel wheel is more able to retain its shape and is therefore better for rolling resistance?

Yes I am. If you want to create a wheel with lower rolling resistance go towards a design where the shape doesn't deform. However you are trading traction. And on an un smooth surface the smallest rock will reduce contact to the size of the rock which will be horrible.
Airless tires will unbalance due to dirt etc getting into the holes and are not very useful for high speed. Also they are heavier and unsprung weight is horrible for ride.

 

[Crissa]

We don't know if the new airless tires will be heavier or not.

And we've reduced wheel weight so much that we're way below where gains are generally worth their costs.

-Crissa

 

[rr6013]

Do we know if we are getting electro-mechanical suspension for the CT? I only heard of air suspension which by itself lacks the real time response rate for active damping and control. Citroen's hydraulic over air used to work a treat, except for carsick inducing oscillations for some people, but Bose style electro magnetic suspension would be supreme.

As I pointed out previously, the CT rear suspension setup must be a pushrod arrangement to keep it under and out of the way of the bed. What I'd like to see at least is air suspension for ride height and load adjustment and a kinetic rollbar setup like on my Landcruiser, that produces zero body roll and no pitch either. Then add some electronically variable viscosity shock absorbers and we could start getting FSD to sample and predict road surface conditions and modulate suspension settings to suit.

Busted!
That’s just narrative tech-baiting Tesla’s R&D gearheads with magnetic absortion of 10yrs ago, which exists barring the expense back then, it might have reached attainable. M-B IIRC is passive vibration damp. IDK if it has active. Me think it Bose that did trial the streets of Boston; gonged it a success then shelved the too expensive technology.

Still, I miss my 1991 RR Hunter edition. Nothing fancy, no leather, no swaybars, black painted bumpers but Cullinan cloth seats A/C with rock and roll that’d pucker foam out of the bottom seat cushion of every newbie. I liked it, a lot. You had to setup, preload the suspension on corners. I’d enter early, lean it into the arch and let it rollout right in the center of the lane. LOL But you couldn’t expect it to steer from your inputs directly. Ahhh, what great ride to roll with the Queen’s vehicle.

 

[SparkChaser]

I wonder fit the AI/ road sensing software will be able to plan ahead for bumps and potholes, adjusting pressure or such for the impact and resistance variation? Maybe I'm over thinking it?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

At some point these might become feasible for road and offroad use but not in the timeframe of interest to the first 1,000,000 cybertruck reservations.

 

[John K]

Maybe reevaluate these tire tracks?

 

[Crissa]

I wonder fit the AI/ road sensing software will be able to plan ahead for bumps and potholes, adjusting pressure or such for the impact and resistance variation? Maybe I'm over thinking it?

Elon says that is on the roadmap.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

I wonder fit the AI/ road sensing software will be able to plan ahead for bumps and potholes, adjusting pressure or such for the impact and resistance variation? Maybe I'm over thinking it?

Mercedes already do it for some models, on and off road using vision and sensors. It's been around 5 or so years, so Tesla is behind the curve atm on that. In particular Tesla seem to be behind on the suspension front. Citroen had active suspension in the 70's. Time to show what can be done.

An EM suspension would be sweet.

 

[Bill906]

Do we know if we are getting electro-mechanical suspension for the CT? I only heard of air suspension which by itself lacks the real time response rate for active damping and control.

I believe Elon talked about adjustable ride height and dynamic suspension as two separate things.

Wait… here it is:

 

[go99s]

Yes I am. If you want to create a wheel with lower rolling resistance go towards a design where the shape doesn't deform. However you are trading traction. And on an un smooth surface the smallest rock will reduce contact to the size of the rock which will be horrible.
Airless tires will unbalance due to dirt etc getting into the holes and are not very useful for high speed. Also they are heavier and unsprung weight is horrible for ride.

Now I understand... You mean a steel tyre!!!
I was sort of alluding to that when I was suggesting that speed related functionality could be developed. Use the centripetal forces of the rotating wheel to bow out the central section of the tyre for example? Tesla (+ SpaceX) has the engineering chops and materials science to look at this entire problem, from the (drive)shaft out.
As an aside, I have recently swapped out the bottom bracket on an old but quality bicycle which had the square taper shaft - solid steel - and replaced it with a modern hollow aluminium shaft and external bearings. The difference in the weight and rigidity of the modern version is huge.
My point in adding this discussion thread was to have us look at this 'from first principles' as we rarely do so, we assume constraints that are implied, such as wheels needing to mount onto a conventional hub...

 

[go99s]

There have been several comments regarding stones, water and debris getting into air-less wheels but there is no reason why the side-wall needs to be open. For the tyre manufacturers, it is probably just for differentiating their product visually. Assume that we can close up the sides and keep iterating...

I also like that we are considering suspension as part of the brief!

 

[Dids]

I believe Elon talked about adjustable ride height and dynamic suspension as two separate things.

Wait… here it is:

Active damping is not the same thing as dynamic suspension. I defined active damping as increasing the pressure above the piston as pressure is increased below to maintain suspension travel as a heavier load is carried. That is different than dynamic suspension which changes in response to road conditions such as a curve .
In the world of suspension, changing ride height and maintaining suspension function under a heavy / light load are more important to me than dynamic suspension.
It's a truck. I hate the empty ride in my current leaf spring truck. I also hate the loaded ride way before I reach the 1/2 ton limit. It's aweful and rides like a truck.
It would be nice to have a suspension that banks into the turns etc but CT isn't a sports car and electro mag suspension would be difficult/ power wasteful on a vehicle that can carry a 3500lb load

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