Solar Oasis - Roadhouse to Camel Trough

[MisterChilidog]

I sometimes hunt deer and elk in the high Uintah mountain range, near Vernal, Utah. There isn't much charging infrastructure in or around that area, and even Flaming Gorge (where I like to go boating and camping) is fairly far away from charging. I have a 12kw dual fuel generator, a 100a charge controller that can accept AC or DC power and has a built-in 6500W inverter, along with 4x 200ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries and 2x 400W solar panels. This is the gear I hope to use for boondocks charging and base camp appliances. Even with all this gear, I expect I'll need to lean on the generator a lot on days with a bunch of driving, and that may still not support 500 miles per day.

Obviously, these aren't going to be my regular use cases, but I feel pretty confident I'll ultimately find the driving/charging rhythm my gear will support.

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[Deleted member 3316]

I sometimes hunt deer and elk in the high Uintah mountain range, near Vernal, Utah. There isn't much charging infrastructure in or around that area, and even Flaming Gorge (where I like to go boating and camping) is fairly far away from charging. I have a 12kw dual fuel generator, a 100a charge controller that can accept AC or DC power and has a built-in 6500W inverter, along with 4x 200ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries and 2x 400W solar panels. This is the gear I hope to use for boondocks charging and base camp appliances. Even with all this gear, I expect I'll need to lean on the generator a lot on days with a bunch of driving, and that may still not support 500 miles per day.

Obviously, these aren't going to be my regular use cases, but I feel pretty confident I'll ultimately find the driving/charging rhythm my gear will support.

That sounds great. I’m not sure I follow the exact scenario.
Would you be taking the generator to different locations and setting up a base camp and drive 250miles out and back again?
The term boondocks is something I’ve heard before but I don’t think I actually know what it means in the American context. Am I wrong in thinking it’s more complicated than sleeping where ever you can park.

 

[TyPope]

States spending $ on pop up's in certain zones is an excellent solution to quickly fill gaps.

The public could even help prioritize the rollout, ie.. online poll.

Starlink internet will provide video security to help discourage vandalism, and facilitate payment.

Charging may be slow, but for those spending a weekend, it might be enough to get you back to the closest supercharger.

At least as a stop gap.. we can only get better from there.

To prevent vandalism, public charging stations could be stationed underground and only pop up when an authorized car initiates a charging session. It pops up and you supply your own cable... this would stop the theft of public charging cables though increase the theft of privately owned cables. However, if you stayed with your car as it charged, this shouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

To prevent vandalism, public charging stations could be stationed underground and only pop up when an authorized car initiates a charging session. It pops up and you supply your own cable... this would stop the theft of public charging cables though increase the theft of privately owned cables. However, if you stayed with your car as it charged, this shouldn't be as much of a problem.

I like your thinking here but the added complexity could make costs prohibitive. An underground installation with a static post is more likely in my mind.

Also it’s going to be run by some sort of on-site renewable generation, counter intuitive to store solar underground.

We need to assume some sort of social cohesion and then protect against negligent damage rather than malice.

The logic of supplying a plug but not a cable seems workable for AC charging but I’m not sure which presents more of a risk with high voltage DC charging.

 

[TyPope]

I like your thinking here but the added complexity could make costs prohibitive. An underground installation with a static post is more likely in my mind.

Also it’s going to be run by some sort of on-site renewable generation, counter intuitive to store solar underground.

We need to assume some sort of social cohesion and then protect against negligent damage rather than malice.

The logic of supplying a plug but not a cable seems workable for AC charging but I’m not sure which presents more of a risk with high voltage DC charging.

I've seen the pop-up posts along streets in Europe somewhere. Maybe it was a tech demonstration, but I thought it good. They also showed some light poles with electrical outlets set into them.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I've seen the pop-up posts along streets in Europe somewhere. Maybe it was a tech demonstration, but I thought it good. They also showed some light poles with electrical outlets set into them.

I think there are some in London, but I’m just not convinced of their utility in a remote area context.

What sort of trips are you going to take that will need an off grid charging solution?

 

[MisterChilidog]

That sounds great. I’m not sure I follow the exact scenario.
Would you be taking the generator to different locations and setting up a base camp and drive 250miles out and back again?
The term boondocks is something I’ve heard before but I don’t think I actually know what it means in the American context. Am I wrong in thinking it’s more complicated than sleeping where ever you can park.

Boondocking generally refers to driving to a remote camping location, where there are no services or amenities nearby, for a camping getaway/vacation. In the United States, this often means camping on Bureau of Land Management land, where there are no established campgrounds, no power, no toilets, etc. Some people own land that has not been developed, so it has no electric or water/sewage utilities available, and is accessible only via dirt roads or trails. In any case, the idea is that you have only the resources you take with you, to sustain you.

I almost always have my tent for shelter, a cooler for perishables, and 5 to 10 gallons of potable water. The rest depends on the form of recreation I'm going out to enjoy. If I'm on a boating excursion, I'll take a 12v battery, my inflatable boat and an electric outboard motor. Associated solar charging gear is a fairly recent addition, for me, and I've added electric cooking equipment to further take advantage of the enhanced electric capacity.

When I plan to explore off-road trails, my 4-wheeler and some gasoline come along, on a small trailer. Again, over the past couple years, I've added the renewable electric resources to enhance my camping experience.

So as I make the switch from a gasoline powered primary vehicle to an electric one, there will be a period of adjustment, as I find the limits of electricity generation and storage. I'll need to adjust my activities to fit within the constraints of my solar/battery capacity. So far, I have reason to be very optimistic about what's in store. ?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Boondocking generally refers to driving to a remote camping location, where there are no services or amenities nearby, for a camping getaway/vacation. In the United States, this often means camping on Bureau of Land Management land, where there are no established campgrounds, no power, no toilets, etc. Some people own land that has not been developed, so it has no electric or water/sewage utilities available, and is accessible only via dirt roads or trails. In any case, the idea is that you have only the resources you take with you, to sustain you.

I almost always have my tent for shelter, a cooler for perishables, and 5 to 10 gallons of potable water. The rest depends on the form of recreation I'm going out to enjoy. If I'm on a boating excursion, I'll take a 12v battery, my inflatable boat and an electric outboard motor. Associated solar charging gear is a fairly recent addition, for me, and I've added electric cooking equipment to further take advantage of the enhanced electric capacity.

When I plan to explore off-road trails, my 4-wheeler and some gasoline come along, on a small trailer. Again, over the past couple years, I've added the renewable electric resources to enhance my camping experience.

So as I make the switch from a gasoline powered primary vehicle to an electric one, there will be a period of adjustment, as I find the limits of electricity generation and storage. I'll need to adjust my activities to fit within the constraints of my solar/battery capacity. So far, I have reason to be very optimistic about what's in store. ?

Thanks for the definition of Boondocking, in Australia that’s just generalised to “camping”.

It will be interesting to see how far you actually travel on a trip. Do you have Google Location tracking turned on?
I found it really helped to justify an all electric transport solution for me. Seeing how far you travel in a day/week could help you define the trips that would need an innovative charging solution.

 

[Crissa]

I've seen the pop-up posts along streets in Europe somewhere. Maybe it was a tech demonstration, but I thought it good. They also showed some light poles with electrical outlets set into them.

Those are all low-power AC.

And they're very expensive.

-Crissa

 

[TyPope]

Those are all low-power AC.

And they're very expensive.

-Crissa

Well, in MY suggestion, I say they DC Fast Chargers that don't have cables that can be cut and they somehow protect the plug until you initiate a charging session at which point it allows access. You could put these in remote (moreso than they are now) locations and not have to worry quite as much about vandalism. Oh, and they are pretty cheap to use because there aren't many frills... maybe a vault bathroom.

 

[Crissa]

Well, in MY suggestion, I say they DC Fast Chargers that don't have cables that can be cut and they somehow protect the plug until you initiate a charging session at which point it allows access. You could put these in remote (moreso than they are now) locations and not have to worry quite as much about vandalism. Oh, and they are pretty cheap to use because there aren't many frills... maybe a vault bathroom.

If you don't have firmly attached cables, then you don't have DC fast charging. You have DC slow charging.

And you can't 'hide' them because someone who wants to steal/damage them can just sign up and use a disposable/stolen card to access the station.

-Crissa

 

[MisterChilidog]

Thanks for the definition of Boondocking, in Australia that’s just generalised to “camping”.

It will be interesting to see how far you actually travel on a trip. Do you have Google Location tracking turned on?
I found it really helped to justify an all electric transport solution for me. Seeing how far you travel in a day/week could help you define the trips that would need an innovative charging solution.

I started logging my weekly miles driven back when the Toyota Prius was all the rage. I was curious to know if it could really save me money by reducing my fuel consumption. In that case, the time for ROI was too long to justify merely replacing my commuter car (I was already driving a pretty efficient car).

Later on, my wife took a job that required her to commute in the opposite direction as my daily drive, so one of us was going to have to take the truck - a Dodge Ram 1500 (my wife took it, sice she was taking our dogs with her to work). It was instantly apparent we were going to have to sell the truck and get a compact SUV. We chose a brand new Ford Escape, and the monthly payments AND gasoline totaled roughly the same amount of money as the gasoline alone was costing us for the old Dodge.

Since then (2016), we've had to radically alter our recreational habits to fit into the utility the Escape can provide. In many ways, I'm grateful for the shake-up. Our camping trips cost us far less than they used to, thanks to the greater fuel economy. I've finally taken the time to fully acclimate myself to DIY and portable solar power. But I haven't gone hunting since we sold the truck, and I do want to add that activity back to my lifestyle. Furthermore, every Spring we have to make all kinds of special arrangements to haul landscaping/project materials from Home Depot to our house, which is a fair distance from town.

And that's where the Cybertruck comes in. I see an electric truck as the answer to my desire for efficient (affordable) daily transportation AND full-sized truck utility. When I got my solar system installed, I was sure to include enough excess generation capacity to do all (or at least most of) the charging I'll need for two EVs. So in addition to pre-paying the electricity for my home FOR LIFE, I also bought fuel for my transportation, in advance. The Cybertruck will be the reintroduction of pickup utility, but without sacrificing economical daily driving. After that, we'll eventually replace the Escape with a second EV, but we'll cross that bridge when it's time. I'm eyeing the Aptera to fill the second car role - we'll see.

Invariably, I get asked why I don't just keep a pickup on hand for the utility, and commute in the smaller vehicles. Bottom line (for me): I don't have the space to keep a third car/tuck. I have two trailers, two motorcycles, two outboard motors, a touring 4-wheeler, a sedan and a small SUV. I'm basically out of space as it is. My boat is collapsible, just because I don't have a place to park a normal boat on a trailer. But beyond that, I've come to the conclusion that we're entering an age when battery energy density is high enough, and cheap enough to provide a viable replacement for chemical energy storage at the transportation scale.

Let that sink in. When a battery powered, wireless phone could be carried on one's person, wherever they went, it took very little time for everyone to decide that convenience was worth a little extra up-front cost (and higher service fees, honestly). When the mass and volume of a battery powered computer got down to briefcase territory, it seemed like overnight everyone was making the switch. We had legacy means to supply energy to everything, but every single one of them - once battery power was available - made the switch. Bicycles, scooters, skateboards, electric induction ranges, heat pumps... Everything we do, that requires energy, COULD all be powered by a single form of energy - electricity. That, my friend, is convenience. And the general public hasn't even wrapped its collective head around the notion that they can buy all their energy AT A DISCOUNT right up front, by making the investment into residential solar/wind power.

The miles I drive, I am fairly certain, are enough to justify the choice of an EV for my future vehicle purchases. My last 5 vehicle purchases were all brand new vehicles, and I've yet to sell a vehicle I've owned less than 10 years. That gives me a lot of time to recoup the extra expense of an EV. Only time will tell how long it takes me to achieve cost parity with the ICE alternative, but I did take the time to price the Ford F-150 that I would have bought if not for the Cybertruck. It was going to cost me roughly $3k less than the announced price of the top-tier Cybertruck. We'll see what the Cybertruck ends up costing when it gets delivered, but I've no doubt it will have offset the higher price with fuel savings long before the average person would have started thinking about their next truck.

The impact on lifestyle? Well, replacing my truck with a "cute ute" required a pretty radical adjustment - I'm sure I'll manage. I don't pester my friends and family to take the plunge into EVs because change scares people - especially the ones who THINK they're reasonable and rational people. Instead, I'm going to take all the math and planning I've done over the past few years, and apply them to IMPROVING my recreational lifestyle in a new Cybertruck. Then I'll let the results do all the talking. Early adoption is not for the faint of heart - but I'm not like other men...I'm a cost-effective fun-lover who's made a lifelong habit of doing things better and cheaper than the next guy.

I feel like I have a pretty nice, low reservation number, for my Cybertruck. If I do take delivery before the pictures and videos start flooding the forums, I'll start the flooding with my own. I've got a lot of ideas and plans, and I'm more than happy to share them and the results with anyone who's interested. ? I can hardly wait!

 

[TyPope]

If you don't have firmly attached cables, then you don't have DC fast charging. You have DC slow charging.

And you can't 'hide' them because someone who wants to steal/damage them can just sign up and use a disposable/stolen card to access the station.

-Crissa

The people stealing supercharger cables have not been getting accounts, accessing stolen credit cards, and logging in to start a session to steal the cable. They are driving up, cutting the cable and driving away. I was using the "no attached cable" as a way to stop these thefts of opportunity. However, you are right about the DC fast charge issue. I didn't think of that. I suppose the only way around that would be some kind of retracted cable that requires a log-in to extend.

 

[cvalue13]

Thanks for the definition of Boondocking, in Australia that’s just generalised to “camping”.

etymology is actually derived from Tagalog, over in your neck of the woods - think it Tagalog it meant mountains or something.

But US service members adopted it as meaning (in U.S. parlance) a particularly remote and wild location, devoid of nearby services. “Boondockers” was a slang term for field boots.

Also shortened in US to “boonies” - eg “headed out to the boonies this weekend to do some hunting”

so “camping” in the boondocks implies a certain category of primitive, remote. “camping,” not shared with other types of “camping” a lot of folks do.

 

[firsttruck]

The people stealing supercharger cables have not been getting accounts, accessing stolen credit cards, and logging in to start a session to steal the cable. They are driving up, cutting the cable and driving away. I was using the "no attached cable" as a way to stop these thefts of opportunity. However, you are right about the DC fast charge issue. I didn't think of that. I suppose the only way around that would be some kind of retracted cable that requires a log-in to extend.

How about if the DC fast charger with hose was in a cabinet of 3mm cold-rolled stainless steel that could only be opened by a code the user received.

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