Tesla AC -> cool?

Zapharus

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There's a temp setting for each side. Literally exactly what you are looking for. It's right on the screen unless someone changed it to remove it (and I don't even think you can).
I don’t want air blowing on me period. I want to stop the airflow. That’s not a solution to the problem when every other legacy vehicle has had the option to stop airflow on either side. 💁🏻‍♂️
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Bill906

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Theres a few parts, can't remember which one.
Heating Mode 3 is described in the 2nd video.

Heating Mode 2 = Outside temp is below -10°C and cabin requires heating. This mode is used to MAINTAIN temperature as it does not have a lot of heat available. Virtually all the heat comes from the battery and drive units excess heat.

Heating Mode 3 = Outside temp is below -10°C and cabin requires a lot of heating. This is used to increase the temperature in the cabin. It is described as almost identical to Heating Mode 2 except Low voltage heaters are turned on.

If Tesla used the firing of the transistors to create heat, the low voltage heaters mentioned in the video you suggested would not been needed.

I believe I just used your evidence to prove you wrong.

Part 2 starts almost exactly where it explains the difference between Heating mode 2 and 3 are the same except mode 3 turns on LV heaters.

 

Crissa

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Yes, they tookmout the resistance heater to use inefficiencies in the drive motor to heat the car.

I don’t want air blowing on me period. I want to stop the airflow. That’s not a solution to the problem when every other legacy vehicle has had the option to stop airflow on either side. 💁🏻‍♂️
My Mazda only splits the temp, not the fan pressure.

-Crissa
 

Bill906

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Yes, they tookmout the resistance heater to use inefficiencies in the drive motor to heat the car.
Yes, the heat pump uses the heat generated by the drive motor to heat the car. The argument is, does Tesla intentionally run the inverter in an inefficient way to create heat when the normal heat loss from the drive system isn't enough.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything that suggests this other than speculation. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it just seems unlikely.

The reason I don't think they do it that way is it seems clumsy to turn the electric motor into a heater that heats the coolant that is used to heat the heat pump refrigerant in the evaporator that is then compressed to make heat when they could just put some cheap resistive heaters directly in the cabin air system. Why make a kWh heat and then transfer it through two different mediums and a heat pump when you could simply make the kWh of heat where it is needed.

I feel like the idea of running the drive system inefficiently to make heat started as a "Maybe Tesla does it this way ..." but after being repeated many times turned into "Telsa does it this way...".
 

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Could some current owners of Teslas tell me if the air conditioners are Cold? Its a scorcher this year with hotter years ahead. And, is the tesla AC dependable, thanks folks.
I'm hoping better than my Porsche... The Germans treat air conditioning like a cup holder - non-important...
 


Tinker71

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Very true that using the AC system in reverse to heat the vehicle is one difference between the new Teslas and other cars. But to the point of this discussion, the other main difference is that in ICE vehicles, the pump is powered by the main engine. The power the pump takes from the engine is typically inconsequential compared to ICE’s inherent losses. Where on a BEV, the power used by the pump matters and can noticeably affect range. Tesla most likely does a very careful balancing act to size the pump to give the best cooling performance while minimizing losses.

In college I drove an ‘86 Buick Regal that had a V8 engine. If I left the AC on “Max” for to long I could turn that car into a meat locker. On a particularly hot humid day, I started it and left it running with the AC on to cool it off. Condensation started to form on the outside of the side windows. I still remember the chill I felt getting into that car that day. (Yes I realize the multiple layers of wastefulness in this story. But god, did I love that about that car.)
The heat pump and octovalve probably are about perfectly efficient at 50 degrees or so. Waste heat of the motor
Heating Mode 3 is described in the 2nd video.

Heating Mode 2 = Outside temp is below -10°C and cabin requires heating. This mode is used to MAINTAIN temperature as it does not have a lot of heat available. Virtually all the heat comes from the battery and drive units excess heat.

Heating Mode 3 = Outside temp is below -10°C and cabin requires a lot of heating. This is used to increase the temperature in the cabin. It is described as almost identical to Heating Mode 2 except Low voltage heaters are turned on.

If Tesla used the firing of the transistors to create heat, the low voltage heaters mentioned in the video you suggested would not been needed.

I believe I just used your evidence to prove you wrong.

Part 2 starts almost exactly where it explains the difference between Heating mode 2 and 3 are the same except mode 3 turns on LV heaters.


[/QUO
Yes, the heat pump uses the heat generated by the drive motor to heat the car. The argument is, does Tesla intentionally run the inverter in an inefficient way to create heat when the normal heat loss from the drive system isn't enough.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything that suggests this other than speculation. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it just seems unlikely.

The reason I don't think they do it that way is it seems clumsy to turn the electric motor into a heater that heats the coolant that is used to heat the heat pump refrigerant in the evaporator that is then compressed to make heat when they could just put some cheap resistive heaters directly in the cabin air system. Why make a kWh heat and then transfer it through two different mediums and a heat pump when you could simply make the kWh of heat where it is needed.

I feel like the idea of running the drive system inefficiently to make heat started as a "Maybe Tesla does it this way ..." but after being repeated many times turned into "Telsa does it this way...".
I heard this about the Model S and it's camping mode. Again hearsay is that the battery pack and inverter essentially radiate low heat up to the sleeper. I suppose it might save the weight of a resistance heater and energy from a fan blowing all night. But as you said why heat more than is necessary. I would think you are trying to maintain the batteries around 50F or so. I don't know how much more comfortable that would make an occupant in subfreezing conditions. IDK I don't have a source. The heat pump is obviously much more efficient above 30F or so.
 

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Yes, they tookmout the resistance heater to use inefficiencies in the drive motor to heat the car.


My Mazda only splits the temp, not the fan pressure.

-Crissa
As I said its in the patent:

23. The vehicle thermal management system of claim 16, wherein:
the vehicle heat pump system further comprises at least one inverter to drive at least one of the compressor and the cabin blower; and
the control electronics are further configured to control the at least one inverter to operate:
during a first time interval, in an efficient mode; and
during a second time interval, in a lossy mode to generate a greater amount of heat than when in the efficient mode.

The heat being sourced from the motors and inverters, including compressor and blower, is from both the efficient and lossy mode. This becomes a higher temperature heat source for the heat pump to extract cabin heat from. The less the temperature difference the higher the COP of the heat pump, so sourcing it from a warmer source improves cabin heating efficiency. The motors and inverters don't mind being cooler but cabin occupants do, the motors need not be at cabin temperature to achieve cabin heating with the heat pump.

What I can't see is if they have HRV function for fresh air. That way you wouldn't need recycle to stop gaining/losing cab8n heat and gradually degrading cabin air quality. Some insulation wouldn't hurt either, as you only have to replace the heat you lose/gain to maintain temperature. Most body energy is consumed to produce body heat, so 3-4 passengers is a kW of biological heating too, and in a confined, small surface area and well insulated space could be enough for cabin heat by itself provided you have HRV for fresh air.
 

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Could some current owners of Teslas tell me if the air conditioners are Cold? Its a scorcher this year with hotter years ahead. And, is the tesla AC dependable, thanks folks.
I own a 2015 model s. Two weeks ago there was a "free" overnight software update. The next day the air did not work although it worked fine the day before. I used the app to request service since I thought that it was some bug in the update. They said I had to bring it in. They have had the car for a week and said the bill will be $2100. The counter guy at the service center said they tested the system and found that it was weak and they made the priority of AC to cool the battery instead of the cabin since that is the most important for the operation of the vehicle.

The myth that EVs are cheap to maintain is belied by this incident and others similarly contrived by Tesla. Just like other manufacturers and dealers, service is a profit center and one of the profit generators is the "free" software update.

So to answer your question, AC reliability is not a strong point since this is not the first failure. It failed last year as well for a $500 repair bill.

There are no mechanics that service Teslas so you are stuck with the Tesla service center and any talk of a second opinion gets a laugh.
 

Crissa

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So to answer your question, AC reliability is not a strong point since this is not the first failure. It failed last year as well for a $500 repair bill.
If it failed last year, why didn't they have a warrantee on their work?

-Crissa
 
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Mythrainder

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I own a 2015 model s. Two weeks ago there was a "free" overnight software update. The next day the air did not work although it worked fine the day before. I used the app to request service since I thought that it was some bug in the update. They said I had to bring it in. They have had the car for a week and said the bill will be $2100. The counter guy at the service center said they tested the system and found that it was weak and they made the priority of AC to cool the battery instead of the cabin since that is the most important for the operation of the vehicle.

The myth that EVs are cheap to maintain is belied by this incident and others similarly contrived by Tesla. Just like other manufacturers and dealers, service is a profit center and one of the profit generators is the "free" software update.

So to answer your question, AC reliability is not a strong point since this is not the first failure. It failed last year as well for a $500 repair bill.

There are no mechanics that service Teslas so you are stuck with the Tesla service center and any talk of a second opinion gets a laugh.

So. Tesla will be/are utilizung the same or more modern remote destruction of private property that john deere, GM and the rest appear to do? I was banking on Tesla having more integraty, good grief. We'll monitor these replies closely. Thanks again. We have to watch our fianances out here on the farm/ranch.
 


radami1

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If it failed last year, why didn't they have a warrantee on their work?

-Crissa
I'm not sure what the warranty is but it was in early July 2021 and I think it's 90 days p&l pretty sure not more than a year. They never print an invoice and I don't have a working printer so my paper work is in electronic files if it exists at all. Much of their paperwork disappears after a few days so if you don't save it immediately you don't have it. The car has 60,000 miles on it and doesn't get driven much. New car warranty expired years ago at 50000 miles 2019 I think. Since then service visits have cost between 1 and 3k per year.

Tesla has a policy of having you give reviews and since I feel cheated by them I always give bad reviews. This is probably a mistake since the worse the review the worse the service gets. And since there are no indy mechanics who work on Teslas in Chicago you are stuck with Tesla gouging..
 

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Post the bill..

take a photo and show us.
 

Tinker71

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So. Tesla will be/are utilizung the same or more modern remote destruction of private property that john deere, GM and the rest appear to do? I was banking on Tesla having more integraty, good grief. We'll monitor these replies closely. Thanks again. We have to watch our fianances out here on the farm/ranch.
It could have been a coincidence or as the poster said the software update may have prioritized the compromised cooling to the battery back. $20,000 vs roll down your window.

When EV equals XX% many mechanics will need to get certified to work on EVs.
Support the right to repair.

I don't think that Elon is looking for margins over 30% on repair. He knows that FUD around repair is a reason people won't adopt.
 

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Having over 8 years ownership between two Tesla, our service experience has been beyond our expectations. I could never go back to money grubbing dealerships. Of course, on the Internet, it's hard to tell who is telling the truth and who is simply casting shade on Tesla.

I am always cautious to draw conclusions from limited sample sets of unknown quality, even the 8 years of ownership between me and my wife is not a large enough sample to be statistically meaningful. So I think the best indicator that Tesla has the best service of all car brands are the consistently high ownership satisfaction surveys that measure the overall ownership experience. Tesla has consistently come out at the very top, compared to all car brands, every year. They would not be in the top spot if they treated their service centers as profit centers and their customers as captive fools.

The fact is, people can switch back to Ford, GM, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, VW, Volvo, etc, etc, etc, anytime they want but they already know how that would turn out. Most Tesla owners are not new to auto ownership and have had a wide variety of brands serviced. Tesla stands out like a shining star, regardless of the numerous Internet horror stories.

I have a theory how Tesla can score so high in the owner satisfaction surveys while service nightmare stories are so common on the Internet: That's right, many of these stories are simply made up out of thin air. When I meet other Tesla owners in real life I always make it a point to ask about their ownership experience regarding service and the responses tend to fall in two categories:

1) It's great, but you can't get them on the phone, you have to learn to use the app to schedule it
2) It's hardly needed anything but the Mobile Service tech did it in my driveway.

I've never met a single owner in all these years that had a service horror story or complained about being ripped off. Legacy dealership service horror stories are plentiful. Oh, sure, they will treat you really nice, act like you are the most important VIP, but that's just so they can more easily gouge you for hundreds of extra dollars! People don't like having their legacy vehicles serviced and they tend to not trust dealerships, based on actual experiences they have had. This is in real life, be careful of Internet stories, there is a small army of people out there who throw shade at Tesla 24/7 under many different alias's and you can't tell them apart from actual Tesla owners.
 

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The above mirrors our experience so far. Love it.
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