Tesla's First Dud: State of Charge x Kyle Conner (Out of spec) talks Cybertruck vs. Lightning & Rivian R1T

[hridge2020]

Don't knee jerk at the title lol. Watch or read first.

Highlights. Kyle says, out of the three, F150 is the roadtrip cruiser, Rivian is the offroad performance truck

He would choose CT over lightning. and it's too close to call between R1T and CT. {There is a video coming where he says he'd pick R1T but as of 7:55pm on a friday he would take CT over R1T lol}. (His favorite is silverado EV though lol). BUT he picks hummer EV over CT.

Charging: He seems to believe the low SOC will be higher with a higher output charger because of the flatness of the curve at v3 charger. This would mean a likely much faster 0-25% charge and then probably the same curve after that.

What would he change about the CT? More batteries! lol

Objectively, considering how this is the first vehicle that Tesla didn't blow the competition out of the water and didnt deliver on its promises, it's Tesla's first dud. But it's still an insane truck.

Kyle may not buy a CT though because he already has the R1T

Who buys the CT? What's it's category? Kyle said. It's for someone who wants to stand out (for now). The agility is unmatched. It's not a work truck

Fits in this category?

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[Gurule92]

But the video did exactly as he hoped. It got people talking about it and watching the video. Why do you think that they have done so many videos about the truck.
You fell into his trap by starting this thread.

$$$
​

It wasn't even a video on kyles channel lol. It's not a trap. It's an enthusiast talking about thing he cares about with a friend. Just like this thread is enthusiasts talking about things we care about with other enthusiasts.

 

[Cybertruck2024]

If you watch the whole video, the sentiment is all of these EV trucks are great and all have different use cases.

What's a dud to some, is the best to someone else. Want something that's AWD, a perfect around town work truck, and costs $50kish after rebates/incentives? Lightning is best! Want an off road truck with the best highway range and most luxurious interior? Rivian! Want steer by wire, fastest acceleration, and futuristic exterior? Cyberbeast! Want something no one has that can crab walk around town? Hummer! Need a huge battery for towing? Silverado!

I honestly don't think there's a stinker in the bunch, which is great for consumers. The buyer needs to determine what vehicle checks the most of their personal boxes, then buy that one.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have been a CT fanatic / reservation holder since day one and I am 99% over it.

The 2023 Model Y we bought as a holdover has developed a horrible (common) high pitched front drive unit squeal in the cold that is absolutely ridiculous and Tesla refuses to repair it after 3 visits. Our 2021 HVAC smells like a gym sock full of mexican food, no matter how often we clean it. As soon as reviewers mentioned "vibrations" on the highway, failing screens, and glitchy turn signals, I was done. I refuse to spend $80K+ and expect more bad build quality and more "within spec".

On top of that, we're just sick of constantly fighting with the downright terrible wipers, the auto high beams, the parking sensors, brutal ride quality, and just recently, superchargers that are bogged down due to being open with Magic dock.

We have an R1S preorder we may pursue, but we're so sick of dealing with quality problems and charging on road trips in general that we may just go get a Rav4 Prime and circle back around in 5 years.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

I think by performance he meant off-road performance. Likely because of the lack of locker support. But no one is questioning the demand not even him.

Also, he said if he was to pick one and didn't own a rivian he'd pick CT.

But I do see where you're coming from. It's more opinion than objective. But considering only the, did it meet expectations and beat the competition handily like everyone thought it would and Elon hyped it to, aspects. It is dud-adjacent lol

I'm confused, it didn't just meet my expectations it blew them away with features not promised. The only issue is price, and that's a legitimate concern at this stage, but I always thought they were pricing it low given the demand. Tesla dropped Plaid pricing by like $40k in two years, I would expect something similar here as production ramps.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

The lifestyle comments, in my opinion come from the fact of larger frunk, gear tunnel, and full size spare under the bed on R1T. I have a 12 gallon water tank and still 60% of frunk room available on 2nd tier. Many have made a kitchen with a slide in the gear tunnel. The full size spare is a most for most offroad expeditions and the reinforced battery shield that isn't an option on Cybertruck is huge for those on any type of rocks. I assume Tesla will do a camping leveling mode as well but we don't know for sure yet. Those are the main reasons I may stick with my R1T.

Excited to get the CT and experience all that it offers. I think most were expecting to be blown away and that simply isn't the case. Dud gets clicks but I understand the sentiment due to a few major misses on expectations. If the CT charged fast that would get rid of my largest concern.

The bed is larger, so you can easily fit a spare and anything that would go in the gear tunnel with the extra space.

 

[Strykerwsu]

The bed is larger, so you can easily fit a spare and anything that would go in the gear tunnel with the extra space.

It isn't that much larger. With a sliding kitchen function and spare you would lose the entire bed while the R1T bed is completely empty for use.

 

[Mattsplat]

Yeah right! 2+ Million reservations for a "Dud". Tell that to people who were taking selfies in front of a covered Cybertruck that they couldn't even see as the truck was covered with tarp during Black Friday closure. I was so close to taking selfies with them.

Novelty ≠ quality

 

[Trbizwiz]

Coincidentally, Elon had the following thoughts on Tesla truck pricing back in June 2019:

Well, according to the CPI Inflation Calculator, it just so happens that $49k in June 2019 is equivalent to $59k today.

Of course, you can't get a Cybertruck AWD today for $59k. But it certainly seems possible that a "Model Y with a bed" could have met that target.

But if they made a single motor, it would be very close to that, and be the “starting point”.
I could see a scaled production, AWD Cybertruck starting at $69,900 in the reasonably near future.
I think foundation series will drop off first half of this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see run rate approaching 200,000k by end of 4th quarter, and that should signal the potential for better pricing. Multiple factors will facilitate this. Economies of scale, and supply matching demand, will be primary triggers for better pricing.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Yeah right! 2+ Million reservations for a "Dud". Tell that to people who were taking selfies in front of a covered Cybertruck that they couldn't even see as the truck was covered with tarp during Black Friday closure. I was so close to taking selfies with them.

One should be appropriately cautious about the 2 million reservations. Just a reminder of recent history:

• Dec 2021 - "Ford says it now has nearly 200,000 reservations for F-150 Lightning, or 3 years of backlog"
• June 2022 - Ford to expand Lightning production to 150,000 per year.
• December 2022 - "Ford Increases Production Of F-150 Lightning As Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Skyrockets"
• Jan 2023 - Full Year 2022 Lightning sales - 15,617
• July 2023 - First Half 2023 Lightning Sales 8,757 production now running at a rate of 150k per year
• Oct 2023 - Ford Lightning Sales down 46% in Q3 Production is cut YTD sales 12,260
• Jan 2024 - total Lightning Sales for 2023 - 24,165; since launch 39,782. Reservations long since gone. Dealer inventory high

So, yeah, a 200k / 3 year backlog turned into a less than 30 k 1 year backlog. And by most any measure, the Lightning met or exceeded the original specs promised when folks made the reservations.

 

[Cyber Man]

Novelty ≠ quality

Quality ≠ Cherry picking.

We have to consider every aspect to truly assess the full picture. Show me one electric truck on the planet that has incredible charging network, steer by wire, best sound system, secure vault, highest mileage to battery pack ratio, Steel body, fast acceleration, easy to maintain, bi-directional charging.. and the list goes on. We have to use critical thinking and our individual needs before blindly agreeing to content creators. Everyone has an opinion of their own. There is no one size fit all. If you want 100% perfect truck, even 100 years won't be enough to build one.

 

[Cyber Man]

One should be appropriately cautious about the 2 million reservations. Just a reminder of recent history:

• Dec 2021 - "Ford says it now has nearly 200,000 reservations for F-150 Lightning, or 3 years of backlog"
• June 2022 - Ford to expand Lightning production to 150,000 per year.
• December 2022 - "Ford Increases Production Of F-150 Lightning As Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Skyrockets"
• Jan 2023 - Full Year 2022 Lightning sales - 15,617
• July 2023 - First Half 2023 Lightning Sales 8,757 production now running at a rate of 150k per year
• Oct 2023 - Ford Lightning Sales down 46% in Q3 Production is cut YTD sales 12,260
• Jan 2024 - total Lightning Sales for 2023 - 24,165; since launch 39,782. Reservations long since gone. Dealer inventory high

So, yeah, a 200k / 3 year backlog turned into a less than 30 k 1 year backlog. And by most any measure, the Lightning met or exceeded the original specs promised when folks made the reservations.

If Tesla had switched to non-metal curvy body with 12V architecture and regular wire-driving mode, they would have beaten Lightning and Rivian from get-go. Range would have been awesome; price would have been great. They could have afforded to even have a quad motor. Nobody asked them to switch to higher volt or steer by wire or bullet resistant metal body or weird triangle design. They are in for the long haul. It's a bold bet they are taking.

It's not about what "Powers" the truck already has.. it's about what "Potential" it can unlock. Some see; some don't; some don't care; some complain.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

It isn't that much larger. With a sliding kitchen function and spare you would lose the entire bed while the R1T bed is completely empty for use.

This is completely untrue. The CT bed volume is double (56 vs 28 cubic ft). So that's 28 in extra space. The Rivian has the gear tunnel (11) and a little bigger frunk (11 vs 7 so +4). 28-15 = 13 extra feet in the bed after swallowing up whatever you have in the gear tunnel (kitchen?) frunk. A spare tire uses 7 below the bed, so put that in the CT bed and you still has 6 left, but then you add in the 3.5 the CT has below bed instead of a spare and you're around 9+ extra cubic feet of gear storage in the Tesla vs the Rivian. You could throw in another spare tire if you want. Sounds way better for "lifestyle" adventures to me.

Not to mention having one big open space is far more versatile than having it split up between bed, gear tunnel and frunk.

 

[Mattsplat]

Quality ≠ Cherry picking.

We have to consider every aspect to truly assess the full picture. Show me one electric truck on the planet that has incredible charging network, steer by wire, best sound system, secure vault, highest mileage to battery pack ratio, Steel body, fast acceleration, easy to maintain, bi-directional charging.. and the list goes on. We have to use critical thinking and our individual needs before blindly agreeing to content creators. Everyone has an opinion of their own. There is no one size fit all. If you want 100% perfect truck, even 100 years won't be enough to build one.

Wow, ease off the fanboy pedal a bit buddy. There are cool things about the CT for sure but let's just break that down.
1. Charging network: my nearest Supercharger is almost 40 miles away. That network is useless to me and road trips in the CT even if NOT towing are going to be terrible. Towing on a road trip will be the stuff of nightmares.
2. Steer by wire and sound system: according to others, definitely CT wins
3. Secure vault: all of them can be added they just don't roll up like CT and the CT leaks water and blocks rear view.
4. Mileage to pack size ratio: this means little if the useable range destroys useablity. If you take your dirtbike to the desert and can't get back, what good was the efficiency? CT range is to little for most of us plain and simple. I needs a bigger pack not just an efficient system.
5. Steel body: all of them? Maybe I am wrong but I believe the panels are steel on Rivian, Lightening, and Hummer (can anyone confirm this, I am not 100% sure)
CT is just thicker and harder steel and less prone to dent (much less from what I have seen)
6. Fast acceleration: All of them. EVs are fast.
7. Easy to maintain: all of them, all EVs are low maintenance due to the lack of mx needed for an ICE.
8. Bi-directional charging: Ford Lightning has this too

When you talk about "critical" thinking maybe you should try being a little more critical in both directions. There is a LOT to like about CT and a lot to be disappointed about. Can we just be honest though and lose the halo around Tesla. They have real competition in the market now and...hold on.....brace yourself.... perhaps the CT could end up selling a lot and still end up being a bit of a lemon not be a very good truck. We shall see. I will might take a chance because I am not a contractor and it is more of a commuter car that can carry a couch or a new fridge for me. But anyone in this market has some very good options. I lean toward the Cybertruck because I am an idiot and I constantly make bad investments. But damn, am I a sucker for the front view of that Cybertruck. I guess I just want to feel like I am driving a Mars Rover even though CT will be worth garbage in 2 years and be the biggest waste of money I have ever spent in my life.

 

[Woodrick]

One should be appropriately cautious about the 2 million reservations. Just a reminder of recent history:

• Dec 2021 - "Ford says it now has nearly 200,000 reservations for F-150 Lightning, or 3 years of backlog"
• June 2022 - Ford to expand Lightning production to 150,000 per year.
• December 2022 - "Ford Increases Production Of F-150 Lightning As Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Skyrockets"
• Jan 2023 - Full Year 2022 Lightning sales - 15,617
• July 2023 - First Half 2023 Lightning Sales 8,757 production now running at a rate of 150k per year
• Oct 2023 - Ford Lightning Sales down 46% in Q3 Production is cut YTD sales 12,260
• Jan 2024 - total Lightning Sales for 2023 - 24,165; since launch 39,782. Reservations long since gone. Dealer inventory high

So, yeah, a 200k / 3 year backlog turned into a less than 30 k 1 year backlog. And by most any measure, the Lightning met or exceeded the original specs promised when folks made the reservations.

Don't worry, we all understand. There's a number of us who have been through this before with the Model 3.

We also understand that the Model Y is the #1 selling car in the world.

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